Hello John,   
      
    LL>> Is access to affordable health care a human right?   
      
    JM>> No.   
      
    LL>> Most of the world says it is.   
      
   JM>Most of the world saying it is, are the one who are not paying   
   JM>for it.   
      
   Every civilized country in the world, with the exception of the   
   United States, has a universal health care system.  Thank God this   
   country is finally moving in the right direction by implementing   
   President Obama's Affordable Care Act.   
      
    LL>> According to the most widely accepted international human rights   
    LL>> treaties, it is.   
      
    JM>> Then the treaties are wrong.   
      
    LL>> The US is a signatory to those treaties.   
      
    JM>> Medical care is a commodity.   
      
    LL>> The right to life is an unalienable right, not a commodity.   
    LL>> Having no access to quality health care is a death sentence.   
    LL>> Therefore, your premise is wrong.   
      
   JM>The right to life is a right.   
      
   Life is an *unalienable* right.   
      
   JM>The medical expertise and everything else used in modern day   
   JM>medical practice used to extend that life is a commodity   
      
   Since the right to life is an unalienable right, the right to life   
   includes access to quality medical care, regardless of cost to the   
   taxpayer.   
      
    JM>> You can not receive that care unless some one else provides   
    JM>> it to you.   
      
    LL>> Our "health care for profit" system should be scrapped.   
      
   JM>And replaced with what?   
      
   A universal, or at least national, health care system.   
      
   JM>You will still have the same problems.   
      
   The problem of having a healthier population is one I (and most   
   other Americans) would be more than happy to live with.  :)   
      
    LL>> The sooner, the better.  Life itself is a right,   not a commodity.   
    LL>> And we should do all in our power to protect that life.   
      
   JM>So far so good.   
      
   Rightwingers have always claimed their purpose in life is to protect   
   individuals' rights, especially individuals' unalienable rights.  :)   
      
    LL>> Not benefit from somebody   
    LL>> else's misfortune of getting sick.  For those who cannot afford to   
    LL>> pay for access to quality health care, it is imperative for society   
    LL>> (taxpayers) to pick up the tab.  It is the least we can do.   
      
   JM>It's the least YOU can do. I can do a lot less and you do not have   
   JM>the right to tax me to help pay for anyone elese's anymore than I   
   JM>can beat the hell out of someone and call it free speech.   
      
   Assault is a criminal offense, regardless of what you might call it.   
      
    JM>> What about that persons right to be compensated for ther service   
    JM>> or product?   
      
    LL>> Should doctors be compensated for their service?  Absolutely.  But   
    LL>> how much compensation is enough?   
      
   JM>Shouldn't that be between the doctor and the patient?   
      
   Nobody has the right to play God.  Especially doctors, all of whom   
   have taken an oath to *save* lives, not *end* lives.  "Do no harm" is   
   part of the Hippocratic Oath.  Rightwingers seem to get that confused   
   with the Hypocritic Oath.   
      
    LL>> Should a heart or brain surgeon be   
    LL>> paid megabucks for performing a 15-minute operation, whan a far lesser   
    LL>> amount but be more than sufficient?   
      
   JM>Who gets to decide what is sufficient?   
      
   Who gets to play God?  Certainly not doctors.   
      
   JM>It should be the Doctor   
      
   Doctors are not God, and have no right to play God.   
   Insurance companies are not God, and have no right to play God.   
   Politicians are not God, and have no right to play God.   
   Rightwing lunatics are not God, and have no right to play God.   
      
    JM>> If you believe  you have a "right" to "free" health care , you must   
    JM>> think it's OK to rob someone else to pay for it.   
      
    LL>> Where did I say that doctors and nurses and other health professionals   
    LL>> should not be given fair compensation for their work?   
      
   JM>Nowhere, you just want to tell them how much they can make   
      
   Nobody should be allowed to benefit from somebody else's misfortune.   
   Most especially doctors.  And god forbid insurance companies, whose   
   only motive is to make a profit (some doctors provide their services   
   pro bono).   
      
   JM>The problem is you have never said where you are going to get the   
   JM>money to pay for it all.   
      
   As I have said previously, taxpayers will be more than happy to foot   
   the bill.   
      
    LL>> Taxpayers can   
    LL>> pick up the tab for those who cannot afford to pay.   
      
   JM>No they can't, It will bankrupt the Country.   
      
   It will save this country from economic ruin.  Think about it.   
   This country's greatest asset is human resources.  A healthy and   
   growing population means a prosperous America for us all.  A sick   
   America that is becoming sicker means a less prosperous future   
   that would end in despair.   
      
    LL>> Doctors and nurses   
    LL>> and other health professionals, along with insurance companies and   
    LL>> pharmaceutical companies, do not have to be so goddamn greedy at   
    LL>> the expense of other's misfortune.   
      
   JM>And you are the one to tell them, ALL OF THEM just how much money   
   JM>they are allowed to make?   
      
   We (society) do have that right.   
      
   JM>How un-american is that idea, where I have always been told the sky   
   JM>is the limit if you work hard and smart enough   
      
   Huey P. Long was a great American.  But his brother Earl K. Long   
   was an even *greater* American.  Do you know why?  Earl is the one   
   who set up the charity hospital system in Louisiana.  This charity   
   hospital system means that every resident in Louisiana is guaranteed   
   access to quality health care, even if he/she is poor and has no   
   money at all to pay for that access.  Doctors are paid, nurses are   
   paid, other medical professionals are paid, even the janitors are   
   paid.  It is our tax dollars at work.   
      
   Franklin Delano Roosevelt was a great American.  But Lyndon Baines   
   Johnson was an even *greater* American.  Do you know why?  Lyndon is   
   the one who set up the Medicare program in the USA...   
      
    LL>> It is a racket, blessed by our nation's politicians.   
      
    LL>> For example -   
      
    LL>> Article 25 of the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)   
    LL>> reads quite clearly and emphatically:   
      
    LL>> Everyone has the right to A STANDARD OF LIVING ADEQUATE FOR THE   
    LL>> HEALTH AND WELL-BEING OF HIMSELF AND OF HIS FAMILY, including food,   
    LL>> clothing, housing and MEDICAL CARE and necessary social services, LL>and   
    JM> the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness,   
    LL>> disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in   
    LL>> circumstances beyond his control.   
      
    LL>> Do you know what that means?  THE WORLD OWES ME A LIVING!   
      
    JM>> No it means theose people that came up with a wonderful utopian idea   
    JM>> that will never work. You may think the world owes you a living but   
    JM>> the people on it do not.   
      
    LL>> The right to life is an unalienable right,   
      
   JM>The right to life is a right.   
      
   The right to life is an *unalienable* right.  According to Black's Law   
   Dictionary, an unalienable right is someting that is incapable of being   
   alienated, that is, sold and transferred.   
      
   JM>The medical expertise and everything else used in modern day   
   JM>medical practice used to extend or save that life is a commodity.   
      
   ACCESS TO QUALITY HEALTH CARE is not the same thing as having "the   
   medical expertise and everything else used in medical practice ...".   
   It is about the right to life, which is an absolute (unalienable)   
   right, as denial of that access would be akin to murder.   
      
    LL>> There are also other unalienable rights, none of which are commodities.   
    LL>> If a man is starving, and you had food available, would you let him   
    LL>> starve?   
      
   JM>Most likely not but if it is my food that I worked for or grew, just   
   JM>because someone else is hungry does not give a right to my stuff.   
      
   In time of emergency, your food can be confiscated and redistributed.   
      
    LL>> Offering to sell him an apple at a price he could not afford   
    LL>> would be akin to murder.  Are you a murderer?  Is that what you think   
    LL>> our society is, or should be?  A bunch of murderers?   
      
   JM>I think you are being a tad mellow dramatic.   
      
   I am never Mello with my Yello.   
      
    LL>> Some people deserve to get something for nothing.  Especially   
    LL>> those people who are in dire need, such as starving masses begging   
    LL>> for food.  Not that anybody should ever have to beg.  Especially   
    LL>> in this land of plenty.   
      
    LL>> month.  Isn't that great?  Now he is giving us free health care.   
    LL>> Just as he had promised.  And you are complaining?   
      
    JM>> It only free to the mucher class, it's not free to those of us   
    JM>> paying for it.   
      
    LL>> We (society) can afford to help those who cannot help themselves.   
    LL>> And so we should.   
      
   JM>Only to a point and we passed that point a long time  ago.   
      
   The US is the richest country in the world.  Has been for quite   
   a while.  And will be in the forseeable future.   
      
    LL>> In fact, we (society) have a duty and an obligation to do so, LL>as   
    JM> stated under the U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8.   
      
    LL>> I'm telling you, man.  With Obama, everything gonna be free.   
    LL>> And I'm not talking about just cell phones and food stamps.   
    LL>> I'm talking free medical care, free housing, free you name it.   
      
    LL>> Anyway, back to the main topic -   
      
    LL>> Article 12 of the U.N. International Covenant on Economic,   
    LL>> Social, and Cultural Rights (1966) also mentions access to quality   
    LL>> healthcare as a human right, plus a few other things.   
      
    JM>> SO WHAT? There is no UN plan to pay for the freeloaders, except to   
    JM>> tax the U.S. and that power is NOT subject to ANY UN treaty.   
      
    LL>> You really should read the U.S. Constitution.  Especially Article VI.   
      
    LL>> The United States is a signatory to both treaties, as well as   
    LL>> several other international treaties dealing with human rights.   
    LL>> Therefore, access to quality healthcare is an accepted part of   
    LL>> the American understanding of human rights.   
      
    JM>> Bull   
      
    LL>> Feel free to view the list of nations that have signed the treaties.   
    LL>> The US is among them.  And while you're at it, don't forget to view   
    LL>> Executive Order 13107, Implementation of Human Rights Treaties, signed   
    LL>> by President Bill Clinton on December 10, 1998.   
      
   JM>Lee I would not care if JC appeared and said it was a right. I would   
   JM>still say he's wrong and would refuse to be taxed for it.   
      
   President Jimmy Carter had a great plan for universal health care   
   in this country.  But unfortunately U.S. Senator Ted Kennedy sabotaged   
   it, thus forcing Americans to wait for another savior to come along,   
   that savior being President Barack Obama.   
      
   --Lee   
      
   --- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb   
    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)