hello Bob,   
      
   On Mon 2012-Jul-09 00:43, BOB KLAHN (1:123/140) wrote to RICHARD WEBB:   
      
    DD>>> The American middle class rose with the rise of unions ... and is   
    DD>>> shrinking as the unions have less and less influence.   
      
    BK>>  A point I recently made. Maybe you will have better luck getting   
    BK>>  them to believe.   
      
    RW>   SUre.  MOst folks who've had to actually work for   
    RW> a living understand what we're talking about here.  IN those   
      
   BK>  Too many have been sold a bill of goods... or bill of bads...    
      
      
      
    RW> who have had to work for a living, and really work but have   
    RW> an anti union bent, imho they've both heard and bought into   
    RW> the right's line and had a bad experience with a union.   
      
   BK>  True.   
   I've seen it more than once, even in a good union overall   
   there are bad locals.  IATSE is a good example of this.  I   
   could tell horror stories, but not in a public forum   
   thankyouverymuch.   
      
    BK>>  Long ago I pointed out that, if business treated the workers   
    BK>>  well unions wouldn't exist. Business don't so unions do.   
      
    RW> INdeed, and I've pointed out that a union is the perfect   
    RW> partner in business.  If treated with respect the union   
    RW> makes sure that the competent are rewarded and the employer   
    RW> better served.   
      
   BK>  AND - Unions make sure the workers are trained. One of the first    
   BK> and most important factors in unions.   
      
   Uh huh!  NIcholas touched upon this, I have before in this   
   echo.  If I need a rigger and he's IATSE and they tell me   
   he's a rigger the stuff he hangs, if properly maintained and fit for use wont'   
   come crashing down on the heads of the   
   performers, or the paying customers.  Consider that with   
   union crew the Station nightclub fire a few years ago would   
   not have happened.  Union stagehands and tech people would   
   have told this fool that was the wrong place for pyro, and   
   required his pyro people to be properly licensed and vetted   
   too.  A union crew would have saved lives that night,   
   because that tragedy would have never happened!   
      
    RW> Back when I first joined AFM the work rules   
    RW> were strict, and if you hired a musician "from the hall"   
    RW> who said he could sight read or improvise then you knew   
    RW> he/she could do as advertised.  Rock 'n roll killed unions   
    RW> in the entertainment and media production worlds.   
      
   BK>  If you hired and worker with a card you could believe he knew  what   
   BK> he was doing.   
      
   INdeed.   
      
   DD>> And that is why China-Mart is so terrified that unions will gain a   
   DD>> toehold in their stores.   
      
    RW> doubt it.  Sam knew where the game was going.  Chinamart   
    RW> used to advertise American made products too.  ,go figure>   
      
   BK>  That was one of the big selling points.   
      
   yEs it was.   
      
    RW> plutocrats will have to do is the plutocrats of the FDR era   
    RW> did, start bending a little bit or end up with nothing,   
    RW> maybe not even their lives.  FDR was a plutocrat who   
    RW> understood that his fellow plutocrats weren't going to have   
    RW> squat unless they did something to try to put the masses   
    RW> back to work, and treat them fairly.  Occupy doesn't   
    RW> realize it, but they're about a generation early.   
      
   BK>  It's going fast enough I don't think it's a generation early.    
   BK> Lucky if it's 10 years early. See the tagline.   
      
   Maybe, I'm estimating another generation.  Maybe i'm a bit   
   pessimistic, but the feeling of impotence coupled with   
   steadily worsening living conditions is gonna take awhile to sink in for a lot   
   of folks.   
      
      
      
      
   Regards,   
              Richard   
   ---   
    * Origin:  (1:116/901)