Re: Freedom!   
     By: John Massey to Nicholas Boel on Sun Jul 08 2012 10:59 am   
      
    > Not so sure about that. When you add back in the money taken by the union   
    > for dues fees and what ever, It's about wash.   
      
   Actually, no.. It's not. Even after take out the money from the union, we're   
   still about $10/hr more than most non-union construction trades. You see, the   
   union construction companies take care of the workers, whereas the non-union   
   construction companies take care of the company.   
      
    > If you had been given the $800.00 a month to shop for and find your own   
    > policy designed for your needs, you could come up with a great policy.   
    > It would be even better if you were not forced have coverage  for things   
    > you don't need.   
      
   Very true. That's something that comes up at every union meeting as well. Maybe   
   someday that will change, since other trades do it other ways already. But   
   until then, I'm pretty happy with the coverages I have currently.   
      
    > Then does the company set your work schedule? Do you just show up to work   
    > when you want to?   
      
   Why has it seemed that while we're discussing one topic, you have gone from a   
   discussion about union and non-union to a gloating session about your ownership   
   of a company?   
      
   Yes the "company" sets my work schedule. My "union" doesn't. I show up whenever   
   the general contractor needs us to show up, and put in my hours set by the   
   agreement with our companies owner and the general contractor. Again, not set   
   forth by my union.   
      
    > > And this is no different at non-union shops. Stopping at bars for lunch,   
    > > coming back to the shop at the end of the day with 30-packs of beer to    
    > share   
    > > with the rest of the guys.. all happens (and more times than not) at    
    > non-union   
    > > companies as well.   
      
   This is quoting your quote, just to show you that your quoting system sucks.   
   But that's an entirely different subject..   
      
   No answer to this one, eh? Wanted to single out unions there by saying only   
   people that belong to one leave work to smoke weed and drink. Another nice try.   
      
    > Good that's a start.   
      
   I'm pretty sure our trade has been that way for years. So what you're hearing   
   in the media that you seem to believe everything they say, isn't necessarily   
   true for all unions. Though it sure seems you like to think that way.   
      
    > PBS other news reports and video on the internet. It's out there and not   
    > hard to find.   
      
   You believe everything the media tells you, don't you?   
      
    > Just another statement that IMO, is more sentiment than fact. I don't know   
    > of any non-union shops that do not hire ONLY certified welders for welds   
    > that need certification.   
      
   I've told you I used to work non-union. OSHA requires ALL construction trades   
   to have working and inspected ladders, too. Do you think a non-union company   
   will shut the job down or tell his guys to go buy new ladders? Hell no. They   
   tell you to "temporarily fix it" and you don't see a new ladder for another two   
   weeks.   
      
   Non-union construction trades do a hell of a lot more than that as well, when   
   it comes to not being compliant with OSHA standards. So I wouldn't throw   
   anything past them.   
      
    > Like you said it's illegal; Why would any company open them self up to the   
    >  possibility of huge fines and  perhaps criminal responsibility if some   
    > one gets killed?   
      
   Because if a non-union company can get by *just* a tad longer, they'll save   
   and/or make more money on that job. I've seen it plenty of times. I've had to   
   use broken ladders, broken guards on sawzalls, broken hand tools. The non-union   
   company doesn't replace your personal tools if you break them on the job making   
   them money. They hardly ever want to replace their own tools, let alone anyone   
   else's.   
      
   But you've obviously never experienced that, so you should only have on opinion   
   about it.. Right?   
      
    > My Dad was certified bridge span welder. I still have a part of the seam   
    > test welds.  The only union shop he ever worked in was the Charleston ship   
    > yards in 1943-1945, and he despised the union system.   
      
   I have my bridge certs as well. *twirls finger*   
      
    > Things like when a light went  out it took two people to change it. An    
    > electrician from the electrical workers union to change the bulb and a   
    > member of the carpenter's union to set up the latter.  He swore it sounds   
    > like a joke but was true.   
      
   On multi-million dollar projects, it's always a fight as to who's work is what   
   because each trade wants all the work, so they can stay working there for   
   years. It is true. And it's also a joke to see in real life. If you stay in the   
   "real world" (meaning, staying away from power plants, shipyards, and   
   government funded jobs), you will probably never see that.   
      
   So I'm still not seeing any brilliant ideas from you as to why my career sucks?   
   What else you got from PBS and other news sources? *smirk*   
      
   --   
   Nick aka axisd - telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org   
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