Hello John,   
      
    LL>> affordable healthcare being  the first of all human rights.   
      
    JM>> BS.  Healthcare is a commodity not a right. You have no claim   
    JM>> to free service that some one has to provide.  Kinda like A person   
    JM>> has a right to music at their garden party, and the government   
    JM>> forces you to play for them for free and if you don't the government   
    JM>> will tax you.   
      
    LL>> Is access to affordable health care a human right?   
      
   JM>No.   
      
   Most of the world says it is.   
      
    LL>> According to the most widely accepted international LL>human rights   
    JM> treaties, it is.   
      
   JM>Then the treaties are wrong.   
      
   The US is a signatory to those treaties.   
      
   JM>Medical care is a commodity.   
      
   The right to life is an unalienable right, not a commodity.   
   Having no access to quality health care is a death sentence.   
   Therefore, your premise is wrong.   
      
   JM>You can not receive that care unless some one else provides   
   JM>it to you.   
      
   Our "health care for profit" system should be scrapped.  The sooner,   
   the better.  Life itself is a right, not a commodity.  And we should   
   do all in our power to protect that life.  Not benefit from somebody   
   else's misfortune of getting sick.  For those who cannot afford to   
   pay for access to quality health care, it is imperative for society   
   (taxpayers) to pick up the tab.  It is the least we can do.   
      
   JM>What about that persons right to be compensated for ther service   
   JM>or product?   
      
   Should doctors be compensated for their service?  Absolutely.  But   
   how much compensation is enough?  Should a heart or brain surgeon be   
   paid megabucks for performing a 15-minute operation, whan a far lesser   
   amount but be more than sufficient?  Why are costs so much higher in   
   the US than in Europe, Japan, Australia, and elsewhere?  It is often   
   said that the US has the best medical care in the world, but that   
   care is hardly accessible to all, or even to many.  Which probably   
   explains why Europeans, Japanese, and Australians are healtheir than   
   Americans.   
      
   JM>If you believe  you have a "right" to "free" health care , you must   
   JM>think it's OK to rob someone else to pay for it.   
      
   Where did I say that doctors and nurses and other health professionals   
   should not be given fair compensation for their work?  Taxpayers can   
   pick up the tab for those who cannot afford to pay.  Doctors and nurses   
   and other health professionals, along with insurance companies and   
   pharmaceutical companies, do not have to be so goddamn greedy at   
   the expense of other's misfortune.  It is a racket, blessed by our   
   nation's politicians.   
      
    LL>> For example -   
      
    LL>> Article 25 of the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)   
    LL>> reads quite clearly and emphatically:   
      
    LL>> Everyone has the right to A STANDARD OF LIVING ADEQUATE FOR THE HEALTH   
    LL>> AND WELL-BEING OF HIMSELF AND OF HIS FAMILY, including food, clothing,   
    LL>> housing and MEDICAL CARE and necessary social services, and the right   
    LL>> to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability,   
    JM> widowhood,   
    LL>> old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his   
    LL>> control.   
      
    LL>> Do you know what that means?  THE WORLD OWES ME A LIVING!   
      
   JM>No it means theose people that came up with a wonderful utopian idea   
   JM>that will never work. You may think the world owes you a living but   
   JM>the people on it do not.   
      
   The right to life is an unalienable right, not a commodity.   
   There are also other unalienable rights, none of which are commodities.   
   If a man is starving, and you had food available, would you let him   
   starve?  Offering to sell him an apple at a price he could not afford   
   would be akin to murder.  Are you a murderer?  Is that what you think   
   our society is, or should be?  A bunch of murderers?   
      
   Some people deserve to get something for nothing.  Especially   
   those people who are in dire need, such as starving masses begging   
   for food.  Not that anybody should ever have to beg.  Especially   
   in this land of plenty.   
      
    LL>> I have said, many times, in this very forum, that President Obama   
    LL>> was going to make everything free.  He already gave us free cell   
   phones.   
    LL>> Imagine that.  Not only free cell phones, but also 253 free minutes per   
    LL>> month.  Isn't that great?  Now he is giving us free health care.  Just   
    LL>> as he had promised.  And you are complaining?   
      
   JM>It only free to the mucher class, it's not free to those of us   
   JM>paying for it.   
      
   We (society) can afford to help those who cannot help themselves.   
   And so we should.  In fact, we (society) have a duty and an obligation   
   to do so, as stated under the U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 8.   
      
    LL>> I'm telling you, man.  With Obama, everything gonna be free.   
    LL>> And I'm not talking about just cell phones and food stamps.   
    LL>> I'm talking free medical care, free housing, free you name it.   
      
    LL>> Anyway, back to the main topic -   
      
    LL>> Article 12 of the U.N. International Covenant on Economic, Social, and   
    LL>> Cultural Rights (1966) also mentions access to quality healthcare as a   
    LL>> human right, plus a few other things.   
      
   JM>SO WHAT? There is no UN plan to pay for the freeloaders, except to   
   JM>tax the U.S. and that power is NOT subject to ANY UN treaty.   
      
   You really should read the U.S. Constitution.  Especially Article VI.   
      
    LL>> The United States is a signatory to both treaties, as well as   
    LL>> several other international treaties dealing with human rights.   
    LL>> Therefore, access to quality healthcare is an accepted part of   
    LL>> the American understanding of human rights.   
      
   JM>Bull   
      
   Feel free to view the list of nations that have signed the treaties.   
   The US is among them.  And while you're at it, don't forget to view   
   Executive Order 13107, Implementation of Human Rights Treaties, signed   
   by President Bill Clinton on December 10, 1998.   
      
   --Lee   
      
   --- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb   
    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)