On 7/8/2012 8:01, Nicholas Boel -> John Massey wrote:   
      
    >> Then why do unions object to Right to work states?   
      
    NB> One of the main reasons is because it will bring down minimum wage,   
      
   Can't bring down minimum wage. Minimum wage has never gone down since its'   
   inception.   
      
    NB> and the price of skilled workers.   
      
   Not so sure about that. When you add back in the money taken by the union for   
   dues fees and what ever, It's about wash.   
      
    I don't know about you, but I sure as hell   
    NB> wouldn't want to take a $10/hr paycut in any career I may be a part of,   
   whether   
    NB> it be union or non-union.   
      
    >> Actually no, Nothing comes out of my pay. Not even witholding taxes.   
      
    NB>  From what I've seen, you're a small business owner I take it?   
      
   Close enough   
    NB> So therefore you pay those kinds of things after you get paid. Not the   
   same for most   
    NB> employees.   
      
    >> They do if they can read a pay stub, or statement. Do you think a   
    >> non-union company don't tell the payee where the money goes?   
      
    NB> When I worked non-union I payed almost $200 a week in health insurance.   
   And   
    NB> some crappy insurance it was, too. We didn't have a choice with that,   
    NB> either.   
    NB> So where is the benefit of non-union to union there?   
      
   If you had been given the $800.00 a month to shop for and find your own policy   
   designed for your needs, you could come up with a great policy.   
   It would be even better if you were not forced have coverage  for things you   
   don't need.   
      
    >> Yes I do and it's a great place. Do pretty much what I want to do   
    NB> when I  want to do it.   
      
    NB> And the union doesn't tell me what to do or when I want to do it.. So   
    NB> where's the comparison, again?   
      
   Then does the company set your work schedule? Do you just show up to work when   
   you want to?   
      
   ________   
      
    >> I'd say it's about the same as all the union members that leave the   
    NB> plant and go to a public park and smoke dope and drink adult beverages on   
    NB> lunch  break. Those are on tape on various TV stations web sites   
    >> Just despicable. What if some drunk union welder missed a critical   
    NB> weld.   
      
    NB> And this is no different at non-union shops. Stopping at bars for lunch,   
    NB> coming back to the shop at the end of the day with 30-packs of beer to   
   share   
    NB> with the rest of the guys.. all happens (and more times than not) at   
   non-union   
    NB> companies as well.   
      
    >> Oh that's right the company has to hire some one (probably another   
    NB> union person)  to make sure the other union guy did his job correctly.   
      
    NB> I'm responsible for my own welds, just as well as everything else I do in   
   a   
    NB> days work.   
      
   Good that's a start.   
      
    NB> I'd really like to know where you get all this information from,   
    NB> because I've never seen it.   
      
   PBS other news reports and video on the internet. It's out there and not hard   
   to find.   
      
      
      
    NB> Then again, I've never been in a unionized shop, either.   
      
    NB> Anyways, most non-union companies that do have welders, usually don't   
    NB> bother getting their guys a state certification to weld.So it's   
    NB> completely  illegal anyways.   
      
   Just another statement that IMO, is more sentiment than fact. I don't know of   
   any non-union shops that do not hire ONLY certified welders for welds that   
   need certification.   
      
   Like you said it's illegal; Why would any company open them self up to the   
   possibility of huge fines and  perhaps criminal responsibility if some one   
   gets killed?   
      
   My Dad was certified bridge span welder. I still have a part of the seam test   
   welds.  The only union shop he ever worked in was the Charleston ship yards in   
   1943-1945, and he despised the union system.   
      
   Things like when a light went  out it took two people to change it. An   
   electrician from the electrical workers union to change the bulb and a member   
   of the carpenter's union to set up the latter.  He swore it sounds like a joke   
   but was true.   
      
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