On 7/7/2012 3:19, BOB KLAHN -> JOHN MASSEY wrote:   
      
    BK>>>>> You don't even have to pay dues, you have to pay representation   
    BK>>>>>   fees, since by federal laws they have to represent you even if   
    BK>>>>>   you don't join.   
      
    JM>>>> Shouldn't have too pay anything to any union for any   
    JM>>>> reason. Especially to be allowed to work.   
      
    BK>>>   That's the free lunch philosophy. The union is responsible for   
    BK>>>   the fact that you have insurance, vacations, higher pay, etc.   
      
    JM>> No. Bob, it is not. You forget I DO NOT WORK for a Company.   
      
    BK>   Actually, what I said is very likely true regardless. You get   
    BK>   the spill over from what the Unions have done. That has a long   
    BK>   history.   
      
    Do the unions cause the sun to shine and the stars to twinkle in the   
    night sky?   
      
      
    JM>>  I Have insurance BECAUSE I PAY FOR IT.  I take vacations   
      
    BK>   Which you likely could not afford if unions hadn't spread   
    BK>   insurance across the population.   
      
   Is there nothing you think is good that didn't come from or was a result of   
   the union?   
      
      
      
    JM>>  ON MY OWN TIME, not when it fits in with what is   
    JM>>  convenient for a company or a union.   
      
    BK>   Are you saying you don't have any consideration for your   
    BK>   customer's needs, or for market realities?   
      
   No Bob I'm not saying that at all.   
      
    BK>   OTOH, you do   
    BK>   demonstrate how little you understand unions.   
      
   And you demonstrate how little you understand about being a free individual.   
      
      
    JM>> I have HIGHER PAY   
    JM>>  because I can charge more because of the reputation I have   
    JM>>  built for quality work.   
      
    BK>   And you would have lower pay if the unions hadn't pushed up pay   
    BK>   scales in general.   
      
   Again it appears you have a vision of the union as seen through the proverbial   
   Rose colored glasses   
      
    BK>>>   The representation fees are appropriate because the union has to   
    BK>>>   represent you. If the law is changed so the union can let them   
    BK>>>   hang you and not lift a finger then your point is valid.   
    BK>>>   Otherwise, no.   
      
    JM>> Representation fees are the same as extortion.   
      
    BK>   Are legal fees the same as extortion?   
      
   In some cases yes. If a person has been falsely accused and has to pay legal   
   fees to adequately defend themselves  or go to jail that's extortion.   
      
      
      
    JM>> WTF is a union going to represent me for?  I don't owe the   
    JM>> leaches of a union one thin penny.   
      
    BK>   Those who work for you would be much better off if they had   
    BK>   unions, now wouldn't they?   
      
   Not really. My help get's paid well above the local living wage.   
      
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