On 7/6/2012 19:20, Lee Lofaso -> John Massey wrote:   
    LL> Hello John,   
      
    LL>>> affordable healthcare being  the first of all human rights.   
      
    JM>> BS.  Healthcare is a commodity not a right. You have no claim   
    JM>> to free service that some one has to provide.  Kinda like A person   
    JM>> has a right to music at their garden party, and the government   
    JM>> forces you to play for them for free and if you don't the government   
    JM>> will tax you.   
      
    LL> Is access to affordable health care a human right?   
      
   No.   
    LL> According to the   
    LL> most widely accepted international human rights treaties, it is.   
      
      
   Then the treaties are wrong.   
      
   Medical care is a commodity. You can not receive that care unless some one   
   else provides it to you. What about that persons right to be compensated for   
   ther service or product? If you believe  you have a "right" to "free" health   
   care , you must think it's OK to rob someone else to pay for it.   
      
    For   
    LL> example -   
      
    LL> Article 25 of the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948)   
    LL> reads quite clearly and emphatically:   
      
    LL> Everyone has the right to A STANDARD OF LIVING ADEQUATE FOR THE HEALTH   
    LL> AND WELL-BEING OF HIMSELF AND OF HIS FAMILY, including food, clothing,   
    LL> housing and MEDICAL CARE and necessary social services, and the right to   
    LL> security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood,   
    LL> old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.   
      
    LL> Do you know what that means?  THE WORLD OWES ME A LIVING!   
      
   No it means theose people that came up with a wonderful utopian idea that will   
   never work. You may think the world owes you a living but the people on it do   
   not.   
      
      
    LL> I have said, many times, in this very forum, that President Obama   
    LL> was going to make everything free.  He already gave us free cell phones.   
    LL> Imagine that.  Not only free cell phones, but also 253 free minutes per   
    LL> month.  Isn't that great?  Now he is giving us free health care.  Just   
    LL> as he had promised.  And you are complaining?   
      
   It only free to the mucher class, it's not free to those of us paying for it.   
      
      
    LL> I'm telling you, man.  With Obama, everything gonna be free.   
    LL> And I'm not talking about just cell phones and food stamps.   
    LL> I'm talking free medical care, free housing, free you name it.   
      
    LL> Anyway, back to the main topic -   
      
    LL> Article 12 of the U.N. International Covenant on Economic, Social, and   
    LL> Cultural Rights (1966) also mentions access to quality healthcare as a   
    LL> human right, plus a few other things.   
      
   SO WHAT? There is no UN plan to pay for the freeloaders, except to tax the   
   U.S. and that power is NOT subject to ANY UN treaty.   
      
      
    LL> The United States is a signatory to both treaties, as well as   
    LL> several other international treaties dealing with human rights.   
    LL> Therefore, access to quality healthcare is an accepted part of   
    LL> the American understanding of human rights.   
      
   Bull   
      
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