Hi Dave,   
      
   On Mon 2012-Jul-02 06:53, Dave Drum (1:18/200) wrote to BOB KLAHN:   
      
      
    DD> Probably because a union some where/when negotiated a   
    DD> living wage.   
      
    BK>  A point I have made over and over.   
      
   INdeed, as have I.   
      
   Trying to combine some replies here.   
      
   FIrst, for Discussion between BK and LL:   
      
   Ascap and BMI are not unions for musicians.  They are   
   associations or entities of a corporate nature that are the   
   collection agents for songwriter royalties from   
   performances, etc.   
      
   Musicians were/are represented by the AFM, American   
   FEderation of Musicians, which used to be quite good.  One   
   reason musicians are compensated at all for recorded   
   performances that are essentially for hire is the AFM   
   recording strike of over half a century ago.   
   The afm doesn't have near the weight it used to have   
   however.   
      
      
   DD> The problem with self-made men is that they used cheap labour.     
   DD> Bv)=     
    DD>> The American middle class rose with the rise of unions ... and is   
    DD>> shrinking as the unions have less and less influence.   
      
    BK>  A point I recently made. Maybe you will have better luck getting   
    BK>  them to believe.   
      
     SUre.  MOst folks who've had to actually work for a living understand   
   waht we're talkign about here.  IN those   
   who have had to work for a living, and really work but have   
   an anti union bent, imho they've both heard and bought into   
   the right's line and had a bad experience with a union.   
      
   The IATSE still does a fair job at representing stagehands,   
   film crews, etc.  But there again, some locals are better   
   than others.   
      
    BK>  Long ago I pointed out that, if business treated the workers   
    BK>  well unions wouldn't exist. Business don't so unions do.   
      
   INdeed, and I"ve pointed out that a union is the perfect   
   partner in business.  If treated with respect the union   
   makes sure that the competent are rewarded and the employer   
   better served.  Back when I first joined AFM the work rules   
   were strict, and if you hired a musician "from the hall" who said he could   
   sight read or improvise then you knew he/she   
   could do as advertised.  Rock 'n roll killed unions in the   
   entertainment and media production worlds.   
      
   DD> And that is why China-Mart is so terrified that unions will gain a   
   DD> toehold in their stores. They have been butt-humping their serfs for   
   DD> so long and so hard that to unionise would force them to remove that   
   DD> "Always lower prices - always" from their adverts and make them   
   DD> compete on quality and actual service grounds. Subjects with which   
   DD> they are patently unfamiliar.   
      
   Some folks say old Sam must be spinning in his hole, but i   
   doubt it.  Sam knew where the game was going.  Chinamart   
   used to advertise American made products too.  ,go figure>   
      
      
   DD> Those who do not understand or read history are doomed to repeat it.   
   DD> (that's not original with me - but, still true.)    
      
   WHo cares about history?  Mroe for Wall Street!!!  It'll get bad enough within   
   the next generation that the plutocrats   
   will have to do is the plutocrats of the FDR era did, start   
   bending a little bit or end up with nothing, maybe not even   
   their lives.  FDR was a plutocrat who understood that his   
   fellow plutocrats weren't going to have squat unless they   
   did something to try to put the masses back to work, and   
   treat them fairly.  Occupy doesn't realize it, but they're   
   about a generation early.   
      
      
   Regards,   
              Richard   
   ---   
    * Origin:  (1:116/901)