On 6/30/2012 5:19, DAVE DRUM -> JOHN MASSEY wrote:   
    JM>> What is a living wage? Is it the same in New York City as in   
    DD> Live Oak JM> FL.? "Living wage," is a worth less phrase, it means   
    DD> nothing.   
      
    DD> Typical straw-man argument. Living wage varies   
      
   Yes, anyone who brings up a non-starter like "living wage" is presenting   
   a straw-man argument. Thanks for pointing that out.   
      
      
    DD>> And there, my fine right-winger we have a basic disconnect.   
    DD> Keeping and DD> strengthening the unions (yes, and getting them off   
    DD> their arses to do DD> what their original purpose was) is the basis   
    DD> of an improving economy DD> and a growing and healthy middle class.   
      
    JM>> I'm sure you believe that.  I'm not sure anyone that truly   
    DD> thinks about JM> it would agree. I certainly don't.   
      
    DD> I certainly do. As do nearly all economists - including Paul Krugman   
      
   So what?   
      
      
    DD>> Dumping the unions only works if you're already a member of the   
    DD> 1%. Are DD> you?   
      
    JM>> Sorry I don't agree withe premise of your question. IF a person   
    DD> has a JM> marketable job skill and the talent to promote themselves   
    DD> they will JM> always do better to dump the union and represent   
    DD> themselves as an JM> individual. IMO. That is the only way they   
    DD> stand a chance in hell of JM> getting to be the 1%.   
      
    DD> Certainly one with a unique or marketable skill will do better "on   
    DD> the economy". Like rock stars. But, most of the work force are not   
    DD> rock stars. Some are barely competent to put money in a juke box -   
    DD> but, can perform useful and necessary work. Having a union to   
    DD> protect their rights   
      
   What rights? 40 hr week, two week vacation, sick time, company car?   
   Here's a CLUE, none of those are rights.   
      
      
    DD> only makes sense. And prevents people with   
    DD> attitudes like yours from the "divide and conquer" tactics that   
    DD> management has used since time began.   
      
      
   My attitude is not "divide and conquer." My attitude is it is always better to   
   be an individual than a member of an out of touch collective like a labor   
   union.   
      
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