Hello LEe,   
      
   On Sun 2012-Feb-12 08:04, Lee Lofaso (2:203/2) wrote to Richard Webb:   
      
   LL> Hello Richard,   
      
   RW>First, glad to see you [Dave Drum] still among us.  Hadn't   
   RW>seen you posting anywhere since you bailed on pol_inc a few   
   RW>months back.   
      
   LL> Dan Ceppa left FidoNet years ago.  As did most other thinking   
   LL> people.    
      
   It was shortly after that Dave bailed out of there, as did I soon thereafter.   
      
    BK>> I do not consider balanced budgets all that great an idea, I am   
    BK>> just pointing out how the republican ideal was achieved only   
    BK>> under Clinton after 1969. Which, BTW, was LBJ's last budget, we   
    BK>> are talking fiscal years, not calendar years.   
      
    DD>> I don't know about how, or even if the numbers were manipulated.   
    DD>> But, I do know that I lived better and had more "effective" spending   
    DD>> power in my pocket when Slick Willie was there for eight years - and   
    DD>> shortly thereafter before George III managed to drive the economy   
    DD>> into the ditch - than at any time since.   
      
      
   RW>Would agree with that.  the only reason I did almost as well during   
   RW>Bush Junior's presidency at all was because i moved to wehre there   
   RW>was a wider variety of work for me.  But, that move was forced   
   RW>because GWB was driving the economy into the tank even in his early   
   RW>days, or at least helping it along that way.  TDuring the middle   
   RW>years of Clinton my usual clients at least had money to spend.   
      
   LL> It is all too easy to blame GWB for the problems this country has.   
   LL> But the fact of the matter is that those problems have existed for   
   LL> years, with little or nothing done about them.  As a result, it was   
   LL> just a matter of time before everything imploded and went to shit.   
   LL> GWB simply made things happen sooner rather than later.   
      
   Agreed, i consider the clinton years a buble that was bound   
   to burst, sooner or later, and it wasn't that good, but at   
   least money was moving around, and folks were spending it.   
      
   RW>AS for Wall Street, forget Wall Street, they've got their too big to   
   RW>fail happening when it comes to sticking their hands in our wallets   
   RW>after they screw it up.   
      
   LL> Thank God our President saw the light and bailed out the auto   
   LL> companies (and other businesses and industries).  Can you just   
   LL> imagine how many folks would have been thrown out of work had he not   
   LL> done so?  It would have been worse than the Great Depression.  Yes,   
   LL> some companies are too big to fail.  The only other real option   
   LL> other than bailing them out is for government to take them over   
   LL> completely.  And that would be an absolute disaster.  But at least   
   LL> folks would have a paycheck rather than no paycheck at all.   
      
   The auto industry maybe, but i can't see where the rest of   
   this bailout actually helped average folks any at all.  Was   
   reading in the NEw York Times weekly braille edition the   
   other day that fat cats are crying that they're limited to   
   $125k bonuses at some companies.  Jesus Christ!  $125k and   
   this jerk's gonna cry?  Come on, he makes $60k a year and is gonna cry cause   
   his bonus is limited to $125k?  I have no   
   sympathy.   
      
   RW>Their version of the casino does alright even if the economy goes   
   RW>down the toilet for the rest of us.  Especially with average folks   
   RW>to bail their butts out.   
      
   LL> The very wealthy can take care of themselves.  The poor cannot, and   
   LL> will not, ever be able to care for themselves.  With more and more   
   LL> of the middle class becoming poor, that means this country will soon   
   LL> become more like Mexico than anybody wants to admit - A small   
   LL> wealthy class, no middle class, and an extremely large poverty   
   LL> class.  When that happens (not if), who is going to bail out the   
   LL> wealthy?   
      
   Who cares?  LEt the wealthy take care of themselves when   
   that goes down, and if they can't because they're overrun by angry citizens   
   then too bad.  I only sympathize if they   
   actually made their money producing something, and I don't   
   mean more artificial paper crap.   
      
   LL> "Corporations are people." - Mitt Romney   
      
   YOu cannot jail a corporation, nor can you torture it, deny   
   it liberty.  YOu can holdits officers and directors liable   
   for criminal acts however.  Hence, it is not a person,   
   because it cannot be held personally responsible in the way   
   people can.   
      
      
   Regards,   
              Richard   
   ---   
    * Origin:  (1:116/901)