EH>>>>> I look forward to see what legal gymnastics Holder does in his   
    EH>>>>> appeal.   
      
    RS>>>> One judge, making his ruling.   
      
    RS>>>> It'll be appealed, I have no doubt it'll be brought all the way to   
    RS>>>> the Supreme Court.   
      
    JB>>> And you believe it is constitutional to force people to buy health   
    JB>>> care  or be fined or jailed ?   
      
    BA>>> Of course he does.  Note that it's very unlikely that he will have to   
    BA>>> purchase it, most likely it will be furnished to him free - unlike   
    BA>>> even those of us on Medicare (for those unaware I pay just under   
    BA>>> $100/month for Medicare out of my Socialist Security).   
      
    The uninsured in this country are overwhelmingly the working   
    poor. They are the ones being hurt now, and the ones the right   
    want's to keep out of the system.   
      
    TR>> Ditto. And a medication I take for blood pressure just took an OOP   
    TR>> jump of 600%, as of the first of the year.   
      
    ...   
      
    BA> There's a really easy way for the government to cut the   
    BA> price of health care in this country,   
    BA> quickly, too.  And it will probably have far more effect on   
    BA> insurance premiums than Obamacare   
    BA> was supposed to (Obamacare was supposed to REDUCE premiums   
    BA> by expanding the pool; in   
      
    Obamacare was supposed to reduce costs through the public plan.   
    That was killed. The increase in the pool doesn't take effect   
    until 2014.   
      
    BA> fact it INCREASED the premiums because it converted what   
    BA> had been insurance into another welfare program - and a big   
    BA> hunk of the pool expansion was deadbeats and others that   
    BA> won't or can't pay the premiums anyway).   
      
    Whose medical costs are paid for anyway, according to you. So   
    that is obviously false. The big hunk of the uninsured are   
    working poor, not deadbeats. You are partly right, they can't   
    pay the premiums, because they are poor. That has always been my   
    objection to the mandate.   
      
    Since the mandate does *NOT* take effect for two more years, any   
    insurance company that claims that's the cause of premium   
    increases is committing fraud.   
      
    Anthem Blue Cross has admitted their massive insurance premium   
    increase is due to healthy young people falling out of the   
    system because they are losing their jobs, or can't find jobs.   
    It's the economy... one more time.   
      
    BA> All the government had to do was require that insurors =   
    BA> specifically including Medicare - pay health claims, in   
    BA> full, within 30 days of submission; the only allowable   
      
    If the government has to pay in full, why shouldn't insurance   
    companies. Your theory was applied to drug suppliers under   
    Bush's drug payment program, no negotiating lower prices. The   
    result has been a disaster.   
      
    Medical costs will soon be 20% of our GDP. If they have to pay   
    bills in full that 20% will probably jump to 40%. Another   
    disaster.   
      
    Payment within 30 days should be required, but will have   
    relatively little effect on overall costs.   
      
    BA> discount would be 10% if the bill is paid within 10 days of   
    BA> submission.  Simple, easy to understand, and it doesn't   
    BA> require a couple of hundred thousand bureaucrooks to run it.   
    BA> Among other things, it would eliminate "cost shifting"   
      
    Yeah, they will just hold all prices high. Remember, cost   
    shifting would not be possible in a truly competitive market in   
    the first place. So, that proves medical care is not any sort of   
    competitive market, so costs will not come down if the   
    government is required to pay in full.   
      
    BA> (which places those unpaid charges on   
    BA> everybody else's bill) and would eliminate at least one   
    BA> incentive for fraud. It would also   
      
    The only incentive for fraud necessary is profit. That won't be   
    eliminated, it will be increased.   
      
    BA> renmder unnecessary the phalanxes of Medical Records   
    BA> specialists whose only purpose is to   
    BA> insure that patients' diagnoses are coded to ensure the   
    BA> maximum possible reimbursement (coding has become a   
    BA> recognized subspecialty of that field). Most folks don't   
      
    That is completely false. If they pay in full it will still be   
    profitable to code for maximum payment, even more so in fact.   
      
    ...   
      
   BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn   
      
   ... Great! My bunny's been cashing my reality checks again..   
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