...   
      
   >   
    RW>> Indeed!  IT takes trained troops, it takes willpower, it   
    RW>> takes building of infrastructure, the things we're failing   
    RW>> to do in Afghanistan.   
      
   BK>>  Don't forget, nationbuilding is not good. Nationbuilding is bad.   
   BK>> Nationbuilding is the work of Satan. We know that because right   
   BK>> wingers tell us so.   
      
    RW> IT has its downside, I'd agree there, but something *must*   
    RW> be done in that region, and the better thing to do is   
    RW> provide the troops and resources necessary to do just that.   
      
    Yeah, actually commit to fixing it. Gonna happen this week I   
    bet... yeah... sure... I believe it as much as you do.   
      
    RW> PEople who have a future that is other than bleak don't   
    RW> have as much motivation to fight to the point of their own   
    RW> destruction.   
      
    Yep. Or, as I say it, when they have more to lose than they have   
    to gain...   
      
    And if they have nothing to lose then they can do anything for   
    any reason.   
      
   BK>>  Best to just let them live in anarchy and grow hard and bitter  and   
   BK>> hate filled... what can they do, we are protected by oceans,  aren't   
   BK>> we?   
      
    RW> That ocean isn't a whole lot of protection these days,   
    RW> especially when we listen to folks moan and groan as they   
    RW> bring them over here on student visas and whatever else.   
      
    Yeah... that's the point. The ocean stopped being any protection   
    at all by WWII.   
      
    ...   
      
   BK>>  After Kuwait I was thinking, the next president should vow that  no   
   BK>> American soldier would be sent to fight, and put his life on  the   
   BK>> line, and maybe die, unless it's for democracy for the   
   BK>>  country they are fighting for.   
      
    RW> I've always hoped for that one.  iF that's not what we're   
    RW> fighting for I don't want the young folks going there to   
    RW> die, for *any* other reason.  NO other reason is worth it   
      
    Exactly.   
      
    RW> imho.  But, now we have a situation where we must do just   
    RW> that, because there  are a couple of failed states that   
    RW> we've either two choices:  Nation building or annihilation.   
      
    Yep. Though there is a good chance if we got out of the way they   
    could fix it themselves. The Iraqis were saying, if the US   
    leaves we will take care of Al Qaeda. They didn't like Al Qaeda   
    any more than we did.   
      
    A local columnist in the Toledo Paper is a native of Pakistan.   
    He points out, the military there doesn't much like being jerked   
    around by politicians, and they won't care if those politicians   
    wear turbans.   
      
    We ain't winning there, and just making more enemies.   
      
    RW> Funny how we went in my little over half a century lifetime   
    RW> from being a beacon of freedom and justice to the world to   
    RW> being vilified and considered inept.  WHat happened to that   
    RW> beacon for liberty and justice we herad about in our civics   
    RW> lessons?  IT got snuffed out, and then sold as parts for   
    RW> cheap oil.   
      
    Excellent analysis... but... there is hope.   
      
    Worldpublicopinion.org prints results of various polls. They say   
    the world's opinion of the US is moving up. We aren't at the top   
    yet, but we are moving up.   
      
   BK>>  The Emir of Kuwait would not have been allowed to return by my   
   BK>> rules.   
      
    RW> MIne either, but he did return.  Even then I was saying to   
    RW> folks that they shouldn't confuse dying for oil with   
    RW> fighting for freedom.   
      
    Which, somehow, they got confused about again.   
      
   >   
   BK>>>  Maybe just do some precision surgery of the Pakistan   
   BK>>>  intelligence service.   
      
    RW>> There's a thought.  ISI essentially operates with autonomy.   
      
   BK>>  Exactly my thought.   
      
    RW> Appears they're gonna be running the show in the whole   
    RW> country anyway.   
      
    Unless they bring in the Taliban and the military decides to   
    stop that.   
      
   >   
      
    ...   
      
   BK>>>  OTOH, we need to rein in India's nuke activities also. Damn so   
   BK>>> much we need to do.   
      
    RW> RIght, but isn't some of India's nuke activity power   
    RW> generation related as well?   
      
    Yep, which is completely within the anti-proliferation rules.   
      
    RW>> Right, and the way to rein in INdia's nuclear ambition is   
    RW>> to deal with the failed state which is their neighbor.   
      
   BK>>  I suspect India would still want to be the dominant power so  they   
   BK>> would keep the nukes. They all need to be under world   
   BK>>  pressure.   
      
    RW> Probably, but if I had to make a choice I'd just as soon   
    RW> INdia have the whip hand.   
      
    I'd just as soon the all be forced to keep their hands off each   
    other.   
      
      
      
   BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn   
      
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