Hello Bj”rn,   
      
    LL>> One could call the present scenario a clique, the players   
    LL>> being a trio of actors of which Ross is one of them.   
      
   BF>Conspiring to a hostile take-over of one of the most prominent   
   BF>echoes in fidonet -- FIDONEWS, and the associated e-zine --   
   BF>seemingly takes more from the conspirators than they could handle.   
      
   Although it may appear to some to be a "hostile take-over", it is   
   more like the creation of a newsgroup.  And not a particularly popular   
   one, at that.   
      
   Fidonet echos are designed to allow participants to participate -   
   without ever having to ask for permission from a "moderator" to do   
   so.  Any so-called "echo" that fails to uphold that standard is not   
   a fidonet echo.   
      
   BF>Even though I think that you, Lee, was a wee bit over the top in   
   BF>your comment to Gary when he gave up just a few of weeks after   
   BF>having been appointed Editor Puppy by the Troika, I can understand   
   BF>your frustration, given the way you have been treated by said Troika   
   BF>over the years.   
      
   Gary resorted to a classic argumentum ad misericordiam - an appeal   
   to pity/appeal to sympathy.  I merely called him on it, in a nice way,   
   calling him a "pawn" of the so-called "troika".  Had I wanted to be   
   more direct, I would have called him a "toadie."  Which is, btw, the   
   more accurate term.   
      
   For those unfamiliar with this logical fallacy (appeal to pity),   
   it is an attempt to gain agreement by sympathy or empathy.  It has   
   absolutely nothing to do with evidence.  "Please feel so sorry for   
   me because I murdered my parents and am now an orphan."  That sort   
   of warped logic.  Gary wants to show the world he has a deserving   
   cause.  He wants others to put themselves in his place, to put   
   themselves in his shoes and see his own sorry plight.  None of what   
   he said has to be true.  He could have made it all up.  And even   
   if all of what he did say is true, it makes no difference.  None   
   of it has anything to do with what was done to you (and the fidonet   
   community) by the troika consisting of Ross Cassell, Janis Kracht,   
   and Bob Seaborn.   
      
   The form of the "argument" goes like this -   
      
   1. P is presented, with the intent to create pity.   
   2. Therefore claim C is true.   
      
   Kind of silly, isn't it?  Silly because pity does not serve as   
   evidence.  And yet, that is exactly what Gary is attempting to do.   
      
   I'll make it even more clear to you, and others, with this example -   
      
   "You must accept that 1 + 1 = 97, after all I'm dying..."   
      
   Well, golly gee.  You might have pity on me because I'm dying.   
   But that would hardly make my claim of 1 + 1 = 97 being true, now   
   would it?   
      
   You will also find the troika using a strange variant of this   
   logical fallacy, sometimes found on Usenet, that goes like this -   
   One of them refuses to answer questions about their claims, on   
   grounds that the person who is asking those questions is being   
   mean and has hurt their feelings.  Like a deer caught in the   
   headlights, they will refuse to answer the questions, and maybe   
   tell others how wrong the person who asked those questions is   
   for having asked those questions.  Always without answering   
   the questions.   
      
   BF>With Ross' absolutely appalling comment to you a month or so   
   BF>ago -- and the rest of the cheering Z1-gang thinking it was just   
   BF>"humor" -- as an absolute low.   
      
   Ross often resorts to ad hominems, as he has nothing else to   
   support his claims (whether real or imagined).  It is more like   
   argument by vehemence than anything else, as if being the loudest   
   and most obnoxious person in fidoland is always right.  Trial   
   lawyers are taught early on how to deal with this, the rule being -   
      
   If you have the facts, pound on the facts.   
   If you have the law, pound on the law.   
   If you don't have either, pound on the table.   
      
   I say let Ross keep pounding on that table.   
      
    LL>> If you allow them to ruin your day, they will gladly do so.   
      
   BF>But we will not let them, will we?   
      
   I'm having fun with this.  :)   
      
   BF>I'm happy to see that not all USAians are like the NAB Troika   
   BF>expect them to be. I've seen numerous comments telling the Troika   
   BF>what they think about their actions, and it makes me believe that   
   BF>there's still hope for large parts of zone 1.   
      
   Most sysops in zone 1 are not aware of what is going on in regards   
   to the Fidonews echo.  Some who are aware have left fido completely.   
   Others refuse to make the echo available for those who wish to   
   participate.  But here is the reality of what Fidonews echo should   
   be -   
      
   The Fidonews is published by the entire fidonet community.   
   Not by any particular individual or small group of individuals   
   within or outside of the fidonet community.  The Fidonews echo   
   consists of the entire fidonet community, regardless of "zone",   
   meaning there are no zones dividing the fidonet community.   
      
   The troika consisting of Ross Cassell, Janis Kracht, and Bob   
   Seaborn have been automatically excommunicated from fidonet (as   
   noted in P4) due to their actions.  Therefore, their "fidonews"   
   echo is not affiliated with fidonet in any way, shape, or form.   
      
   --Lee   
      
   --- MesNews/1.06.00.00-gb   
    * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)