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   CONSPRCY      How big is your tinfoil hat?      2,445 messages   

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   Message 1,862 of 2,445   
   Mike Powell to All   
   A first step in Europe P   
   22 Oct 25 09:40:05   
   
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   A first step in Europe  Proton slams Switzerland's new surveillance bill at   
   the United Nations Forum   
      
   Date:   
   Wed, 22 Oct 2025 13:17:30 +0000   
      
   Description:   
   An amendment to the Swiss surveillance law could soon force VPNs and    
   messaging apps to identify and retain user data.   
      
   FULL STORY   
      
   Privacy firm Proton hasn't shied away from its opposition to a controversial   
   amendment to Switzerland's surveillance law  and Proton Mail 's Head of Legal   
   has reiterated this during the War, Peace and Neutrality forum hosted at the   
   United Nations in Geneva on October 10.    
      
   Swiss lawmakers want to expand data retention obligations in the country.   
   These are currently limited to mobile networks and internet service providers   
   (ISPs), but would be expanded to all internet service providers with at least   
   5,000 users, including virtual private networks (VPNs) , messaging apps, and   
   social networks.    
      
   The measures would force these services to identify their users and collect a   
   large amount of their data, with the details being stored for up to six   
   months. Providers will also be required to decrypt the communication upon the   
   authorities' request should they own encryption keys.    
      
   By introducing such an "indiscriminate data retention model," Marc Loebekken,   
   Head of Legal at Proton Mail, said "Switzerland is taking a first step in   
   Europe."    
      
   "This is something quite unprecedented, which we strongly believe would lead   
   to a severe difficulty for Swiss businesses to compete, especially in the   
   sector of digital trust, where it is fundamental to give customers power over   
   the data," adds Loebekken.    
      
   Proton, the firm behind the highly popular Proton VPN , is not alone in   
   feeling this way. As Loebekken pointed out, almost everybody who expressed an   
   opinion on the matter is against, fueling a debate around what critics have   
   deemed as " a war against online anonymity ." These include other Swiss   
   privacy providers, such as NymVPN , Threema , and Session .   
      
   "No choice but to leave"   
      
   Proton Mail first entered the market in 2014, offering a privacy-first and   
   secure alternative to Big Tech services like Google's Gmail or Microsoft's   
   Outlook.    
      
   Over 10 years later, much has changed. Proton now also offers one of the best   
   VPNs on the market, a reliable password manager , and encrypted cloud storage   
   and calendar apps. The company has also entered the world of AI chatbots   
   recently, unveiling its own private iteration, Lumo .    
      
   All Proton's services operate under a strict no-log privacy policy, meaning   
   that the company should never collect details that can identify users. This   
   model can therefore not survive a requirement to de-anonymize users and store   
   their names, email addresses, IP address logs, and other personal data.    
      
   Hence, Loebekken has reiterated Proton CEO Andy Yen's previous claim when he   
   said that this law would make Proton less confidential than Google : the   
   company has "no choice but to leave" if the amendment passes.    
      
   Proton has already begun to cut some ties with Switzerland over "legal   
   uncertainty ." Lumo is the first product to change home, with Germany   
   currently hosting its servers.    
      
   The company has also confirmed it's developing facilities in Norway, while   
   investing over 100 million to build a "sovereign European stack" for its   
   services, ensuring it "cant be held hostage by Switzerland" if the laws    
   change for the worse.    
      
   Proton's goal is clear  users' privacy cannot be compromised. "Whatever   
   problem we have today with the reliance on those [Big Tech] providers is not   
   solved by regulation. Its solved by having our own emerging companies   
   competing to get viable alternatives," said Loebekken. Beyond Switzerland    
      
   The threats against online anonymity and private, secure communications do    
   not come only from Switzerland, though.    
      
   A push to create an encryption backdoor is also spreading across Europe,   
   especially with the fierce debate surrounding the EU Chat Control proposal    
   and client-side scanning technology.    
      
   "These frameworks that are being pushed are not helpful," said Loebekken.    
      
   Despite coming from noble intentions, Loebekken argues that weakening   
   encryption under the guise of security is a dangerous trade-off that   
   ultimately harms everyones security, as it cannot work from a technological   
   perspective.    
      
   "They simply are not solutions and will create more problems," he added. "I'm   
   not saying there shouldnt be anything done about crimes on the platform, but   
   it should be done in a targeted way."   
      
   ======================================================================   
   Link to news story:   
   https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/a-first-step-in-europe-prot   
   on-slams-switzerlands-new-surveillance-bill-at-the-united-nations-forum   
      
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