Hello Bob,   
      
   BK>I was just reading some of the vitriol posted in the right wing   
   BK>echo, about the Chick Filet issue. That got me to thinking about   
   BK>how the right wingers love to paint anyone not in their group as   
   BK>liberals and smear them with much worse.   
      
   Debate in this country has been getting more and more polarized,   
   leaving nobody in the middle.  Rather than defining problems that   
   exist and seeking solutions, both sides are preferring to talk   
   AT one another.  And if anybody from one side even suggests that   
   negotiations with the other side be initiated, that somebody is   
   branded as being a "traitor".   
      
   BK>This led me to think about the conservatives who used to post in   
   BK>Fido. People like Frank Scheidt, John Fitzgerald, Peter Brady,   
   BK>and more I can't even remember any more. Frank was a devoted   
   BK>conservative, even Bush supporter till the bitter end. Yet,   
   BK>because he would not goose step with the right wingers they   
   BK>pushed him out of right wing echos. Peter Brady was a hard core   
   BK>conservative, and more intelligent than any right wingers I see   
   BK>in Fido now, yet he was firmly dedicated to substantive debate   
   BK>devoid of personal attack.   
      
   It used to be that politicians of all political stripes could   
   sit down together and have real discussions about real issues   
   that affect real people.  And sometimes even work out real   
   solutions for those very real problems.  But not today.  Even   
   Ronald Reagan would be appalled at what he would find.   
      
   BK>John Fitzgerald was another case entirely. He was perhaps the   
   BK>most hard case conservative I have seen in Fido, but he was also   
   BK>capable of reasonable consideration of other points of view.   
   BK>John was also someone who would conduct decent, and friendly,   
   BK>conversations with those they disagreed with.   
      
   There was one issue he was so adamant that he was right   
   about that he never even considered the possibility that he   
   could be wrong, even after being shown the evidence.  But   
   I can agree with John's principle - argue a point as hard   
   a you can, staking your own case, even if others prove   
   that argument to be full of holes.   
      
   What is difficult for conservatives (and also liberals)   
   is to admit defeat after being shown clear and definitive   
   evidence that your argument has no merit.  :)   
      
   BK>All three of those were people I would like to sit down to   
   BK>coffee with. Opposed to those you have the right wingers who are   
   BK>left in Fidonet. They consider personal attack the normal mode   
   BK>of conversation, smear perfectly acceptable, and find if   
   BK>offensive if you show they have distorted or misquoted someone.   
      
   Ad hominem seems to be the rule of thumb in today's politics   
   in Congress.  So why not in Fidonet, and everyplace else?   
      
   "If you want an argument, start a fight." - Irish proverb   
      
   BK>The right on Fido is no longer made up or conservative, but   
   BK>right wingers who cannot accept that others not only have   
   BK>legitimate views, but they can't deal with being proven wrong.   
   BK>To them truth is a variable, not a constant, and it changes to   
   BK>meet their point of view.   
      
   Jessep: You want answers?   
   Kaffee: I think I'm entitled to them.   
   Jessep: You want answers?   
   Kaffee: I want the truth!   
   Jessep: You can't handle the truth!   
      
   BK>This is sad, but is also, I believe, a major factor in the   
   BK>decline of Fidonet.   
      
   Jessep: Son, we live in a world that has walls.  And those   
   walls have to be guarded by men with guns.  Who's gonna do it?   
   You?  You, Lt. Klahn?  I have a greater responsibility than   
   you can possibly fathom...   
      
   BK>This is sad, and I have no idea how to recruit rational   
   BK>conservatives to join the debate.   
      
   All we need are a few good men...   
      
   --Lee   
      
      
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