MSGID: 2:240/1120.976 758a1be4   
   PID: Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android   
   TID: jNode/Android   
   CHRS: CP866 2   
   REPLY: 2:333/808.7 5fa89ef6   
   Hello, August Abolins.   
   On 11/9/20 2:42 AM you wrote:   
      
    AA> Hi Charles! Answering a msg of <08 Nov 20>, from you to me:   
    AA>>> those well supported systems with multiple lines. Hence, users    
    AA>>> gravited towards systems where they could get on right away..   
    CP>> I remember with AOL, it would cycle through local numbers until    
    CP>> it connected. The others I don't recall.   
    AA> The others had little to no busy signal issues. Even IBM had its    
    AA> own BBS. That was fun to connect to and get info about OS/2    
    AA> updates and post messages in the online community. From the    
    AA> latter, I learned about an OS/2 user group that would meet every    
    AA> month in downtown Montreal in one of the IBM buildings. They    
    AA> featured guest speakers (programmers, designers..), door prizes. I    
    AA> won an OS/2 Warp T-shirt one evening - that was cool.   
      
   That could be a difference in location.  At that time, Houston and   
   Philadelphia, PA were playing ping pong with being the 4th and 5th largest   
   cities in the US. Houston had a larger population than the State of Kansas.    
      
   I'm not sure where you are located, but I would guess Eastern Ontario, or now   
   I suppose Quebec, since you mentioned Montreal.    
      
   Based on the populations of these areas,  I suspect more callers in the   
   Houston area than in either of those, just based on density. The Houston metro   
   area population is about 3/4 of the population of Quebec, and close to half of   
   Ontario's.    
      
   But AOL had enough lines available that I never could not connect.   
       
      
      
    AA> But TODAY, that dial-n-wait process is obsolete.  I don't think    
    AA> the prospective public knows that BBSes are accessible via Telnet    
    AA> (with their exisiting internet service) and the waiting queue is    
    AA> practically non-existent.   
      
   True. But you have to explain Telnet.   
       
    CP>> I primarily logged on transferred QWK or BW packets and logged    
    CP>> off. A few systems, I would play a few door games. Primarily    
    CP>> league games.   
    AA> Same here. I wasn't too much into the games, but it was a nice    
    AA> diversion at times.   
      
   I liked checking them out.  Like I've said I'm a software geek.  I like seeing   
   what's out there.   
       
    AA>>> To come back? Why would they do that, when they get pretty    
    AA>>> graphics and colours (html) and buttons to click on the screen?    
    AA>>> It's so much more fun.   
    CP>> True, you could see things that you couldn't on a BBS, but why is    
    CP>> it either/or? For the most part, with a few exceptions, you still    
    CP>> have far better quality discussions on Fido than elsewhere    
    CP>> online.   
    AA> The target audience is jappers like you and I.  I don't need the    
    AA> graphical distractions that online web interfaces provide.   
      
   Exactly.   
       
    CP>>>> Obviously I was wrong.   
    AA>>> :)   
    CP>>>> I tried newsgroups now and then. I didn't care for them. It    
    CP>>>> seemed a cheap imitation of echomail.   
    AA> On that, I concur.   
    CP>> Fidonet had a Message area for nearly any topic you could    
    CP>> imagine.   
    AA> Over time, the majority of active echos reduced to areas geared    
    AA> for sysop/bbs interests.   
      
   Because for the most part, that's what's still here.    
      
   So the issue there is get the other echos listed if they fell off, BBS's   
   carrying them, and ensuring the various uplinks are linked correctly.   
      
   Much like is being done with the echos being linked into Telegram.   
       
    CP>> Now systems either can send packets as soon as there is new mail    
    CP>> or hourly, as they choose, so you can have back and forth in a    
    CP>> conversation several times a day.   
    AA> This is what today's Fidonet ought to leverage and promote for the    
    AA> user's advantage.   
      
   That's what I've been thinking.   
       
    AA>>> Sysops do there best with listings.. But, for the most part    
    AA>>> Fidonet (or any othernet for that matter) remains obscure to the    
    AA>>> average user out there.   
    CP>> Exactly. How many of those things would someone not part of the    
    CP>> BBS community even know exist?   
    AA> Word needs to be seeded outside the Fidonet realm.   
    CP>> Even with Facebook, I belong to a Group called FidoNet TREK Echo.    
    CP>> It was supposedly set up to mimic it's namesake. There are about    
    CP>> 175 members in the Group. Besides myself, I know 3 members that    
    CP>> were for certain part of Fidonet in the past.   
    AA> I hung out in the fido PHOTO group. Then, when internet came    
    AA> along, someone built a Facebook group and everyone went there.     
    AA> The FB solution was pretty good considering that echo was    
    AA> primarily about each other's photos. FB made it easy to share    
    AA> images. BUT... I noticed that the converstional content degraded    
    AA> to zero. The FB group maybe had a brief description (or none at    
    AA> all) for an initial photo, but the rest of the content was just    
    AA> the "thumbs-up" thing, or one-liners like "great photo". The group    
    AA> even experimented with scheduled audio chat events (think Zoom,    
    AA> but for audio-only). That was rather cool, except for me still on    
    AA> dialup at the time, it was a brutal experience. Group audio could    
    AA> get confusing.   
    CP>> ... people share articles related to various Star Trek related    
    CP>> shows, movies, events, actors. Occasionally, someone will post an    
    CP>> opinion on an episode. But there is no discussion to speak of. It    
    CP>> hardly reflects what the Echo it's named after was.   
    AA> Same result as PHOTO echo.   
    CP>> My point is that if you have something like that, wouldn't you    
    CP>> want to promote where it came from?   
    AA> That is a good point. A shout-out to a sister "disscussion" group    
    AA> on Fidonet could appeal to some of the FB TREK users too, like    
    AA> you.   
      
   Unfortunately, in this case, the former Fido folks I still am in contact with   
   outside of Fido have little interest.   
       
    AA>>>>> Twitter..   
    CP>>>> I don't get the hashtags. I mean, I understand what the intent    
    CP>>>> was, but I don't get it..   
    AA>>> They are a way to categorize a message...   
    CP>> I know what hashtags are and their purpose. I don't get the need    
    CP>> for them.   
    AA> It is a way to attempt to build a community of likeminded people    
    AA> on a particular topic.  Case in point: #metoo  And look how that    
    AA> sky-rocketed into media fame.   
      
   It got media attention because famous people, or people used by famous people   
   used it.  If not for the celebrity connection, it would have been relegated to   
   a "trending now" type of report.   
      
      
    AA>>> The ZDnet article mentioned The Well. The internet presence for    
    AA>>> The Well looks amazing and well organized. It's basically the    
    AA>>> same thing as Fidonet, but webbased forums. Not sure if there is    
    AA>>> an offline option for messages. Its philosophy of real names,    
    AA>>> etc... reads very much like the Fidonet BBSses of old.   
    CP>> The Well is a commercial BBS, more or less.   
    AA> Was it always commercial? One of the history articles in WIRED    
    AA> didn't quite cover that aspect. But it did primarily focus on an    
    AA> LA community.  No mention of anything like echomail connecting    
    AA> people worldwide.   
      
   I believe so.   
       
    CP>> I wasn't clear enough, I guess. History is important. FidoNet    
    CP>> showed what a bunch of regular people are capable of. Linking    
    CP>> thousands or more people together worldwide talking about things.    
    CP>> Not governments, not corporations, not Universities. People. On    
    CP>> their own time, out of their own pockets.   
    AA> I sense a fine Fidonet article in the making!   
      
   I still owe an article to Fidogazette.   
       
    CP>> Different computer systems, it didn't matter. Different OSes, no    
    CP>> problem. We have this program in DOS, let's make it available for    
    CP>> people that use OS2 or Linux. Or vice versa. You have a C=64? No    
    CP>> problem, join in the fun. If I'm not mistaken, every model of    
    CP>> home computer there was could participate.   
    AA> Yes.. there was excitement to accomodate the caller/user.   
      
   There was a much wider selection of computers and operating systems.   
       
    CP>> Apathy fits a lot of it. But there is more than that. How many    
    CP>> BBS related programs are there that have versions for multiple    
    CP>> operating systems? What if those programmers thought, "I only use    
    CP>> X OS. I don't need to port it to Y."? Or release the code so    
    CP>> someone else can. That's exactly what this is here. Android is    
    CP>> simply a different OS. But there are negative reactions to the    
    CP>> idea.   
    AA> Age? I think the sysops/progammers of yesteryear are tired,    
    AA> satisfied to just dwell in nostalgia.   
      
   Not all of them. Otherwise you wouldn't see anything being updated. Look at   
   MysticBBS, or Synchronet for examples.   
       
    CP>> It's the negativity. "The screen is too small" "The Keyboard is    
    CP>> too small" "It's too hard to read on it"   
    AA> Those are user's/sysop's comments. What is lacking is a    
    AA> programmer/visionary.   
      
   Look at your comment here.  If users and sysops are saying those things, how   
   many programers are going to make the effort?   
      
   At this point, I pretty much resigned myself to the fact that I will have to   
   muddle through myself to get to an Alpha or Beta phase at least.   
       
    CP>> Ok, in your particular situation, any or all of these comments    
    CP>> might be true. But that doesn't make it universally true.    
    CP>> Millions of people use tablets and smartphones on a daily basis.   
    AA> Except for the tried and true genuine BBS interface experience,    
    AA> there is no real reason NOT to embrace supporting echomail on a    
    AA> smartphone/tablet. Some of the NNTP apps are pretty good. They    
    AA> just need cooperating sysops to provide the server-side for that -    
    AA> which there is.  JamNNTP goes a step further and tries to mimic    
    AA> the FROM:/TO: in the typical nntp field so that you can see both    
    AA> names in a conversation.   
      
   I'm not sure what you mean. Tried and True genuine BBS interface? Other than a   
   lack of a good, reliable ANSI telnet, I can connect to BBSes on my phone.   
   Obviously I can exchange messages through points and nntp.  I just think it   
   can all be better. You can have the same experience, and use the newer   
   technology.   
      
    CP>> My more current discussion in Asian Link. His idea works. It's    
    CP>> more programmer heavy than I'm looking for. But it's there, and    
    CP>> if it works for people, I'm in full support.   
    AA> Which discussion is that?  I think I missed it. Short-lived? Was    
    AA> it just a comment or two?   
      
   It was a short exchange just after the Telegram link was announced but not yet   
   active.  Maurice wrote a BASH script he used in Termux to do mail exchange.   
       
    CP>> The general public aren't big programmers. But they can install    
    CP>> an app. They can type an address. They can fill out a form. So    
    CP>> the typical BBS related software, a decent Telnet that supports    
    CP>> ANSI graphics and BBS transfers for Mail Packets, seem a very    
    CP>> good thing to me.   
    AA> That is all good. Keep expressing it. If you could draw in someone    
    AA> who can explore your ideas futher, it could get traction.   
      
   My problem is my brain goes several times faster than I can explain. You see   
   how long it takes sometimes to understand what I'm talking about.   
      
   I also make leaps in logic sometimes that make perfect sense to me, then spend   
   days having to figure it out backward so I can understand the steps i mentally   
   skipped to get there.   
       
    CP>> As far as the BBS on Android idea? It's definitely not for    
    CP>> everyone. But it's something that I see potential for.   
    AA> I'm reminded of the BBS-on-a-Stick project.   
      
   I'm guessing some sort of USB flash drive?   
       
    AA>>> Yes, Hotdoged seems to be a fine adaptation for Android devices.    
    AA>>> But is that the one where the code is not available?   
    CP>> The Fido provider portion of HotdogEd is based on jNode. I'm not    
    CP>> sure about the other portions.   
    AA> I see lots of tutorials and info on jNode.  Sounds good.   
      
   Other than the issues I have mentioned before, it us a decent program,   
       
      
   --   
   Best regards!   
   Posted using Hotdoged on Android   
   --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android   
    * Origin: Houston, TX (2:240/1120.976)   
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