REPLY: 2:221/6.21 b4ce018b   
   MSGID: 2:333/808.7 5fa73a2d   
   CHRS: CP850 2   
   TZUTC: 0100   
   Hi Charles!   
      
   07 Nov 20 05:28, you wrote to me:   
      
    CP> I remember the initial participation fall off of some of the echos I   
    CP> most actively participated in. At the time, connecting to the internet   
    CP> was primarily dialup, so I don't really accept that.   
      
   There were a lot of different BBSes (mostly single POTS) to choose from in the   
   early days. As the AOL, Prodigy, and public uucp services emerged, busy   
   signals were probably a rarity for those well supported systems with multiple   
   lines.  Hence, users gravited towards systems where they could get on right   
   away.  That's how I felt with Compuserve; I don't recall ever getting a busy   
   signal with that. Meanwhile, supporting multiple lines for a hobby-based BBS   
   was expensive. The other services mentioned above were all $'s supported.   
      
    CP> I did see it as   
    CP> being something shiny and new, so obviously people were going to look   
    CP> around.  But I also expected them to eventually come back around the   
    CP> echos. Perhaps not as often as before, but consistently.   
      
   To come back? Why would they do that, when they get pretty graphics and   
   colours (html) and buttons to click on the screen? It's so much more fun.   
      
      
    CP> Obviously I was wrong.   
      
   :)   
      
      
    CP> I tried newsgroups now and then.  I didn't care for them.  It seemed a   
    CP> cheap imitation of echomail. Email group lists were better, but many   
    CP> of the lists I was on then were primarily by people coming from a   
    CP> Fidonet background, and the lists reflected that.   
      
   I thought ngs where quite amazing - before my regular hangouts started getting   
   trolls and spam.   
      
      
    AA>> Myself, my community for fast answers and interesting conversions   
    AA>> included Compuserve for at least 3 or 4 years.   
      
    CP> I never did find anything like that on Compuserve or AOL.   
      
   I hung around the areas for music and film primarily. The odd technical place   
   for Windows and OS/2 was pretty good for questions and answers.   
      
      
    AA>> FTN echomail... web forum style too (eg Synchronet's eWeb thing?)   
      
    CP> It has. But it's also had a tendency to be very insular. There is very   
    CP> little, if any promotion of what it has to offer.   
      
   Sysops do there best with listings on TelnetBBS Guide, getting noticed on   
   places like ipingtherforeiam, creating Welcome webpages that offer fTelnet   
   connections, and even some Facebook presence to make announcements and try to   
   inform new visitors.   
      
   But, for the most part Fidonet (or any othernet for that matter) remains   
   obscure to the average user out there.   
      
      
    AA>> BBSing is probably still strongly associated with dialup.   
      
    CP> I actually think more in terms of Telnet these days, the local BBS's I   
    CP> called on dialup vanished long ago.  I'm sure there are some still,   
    CP> but I no longer even have a landline phone.   
      
   Precisely. So, the average person thinks that BBSes are quite dead since many   
   people don't use dialup for their internet/computer activity anymore.   
      
      
    AA>> Twitter, I won't comment on, except to say that I don't like the   
    AA>> hashtag mess that the tweets become.   
      
    CP> I don't get the hashtags. I mean, I understand what the intent was,   
    CP> but I don't get it.   
      
   They are a way to categorize a message. Clicking on the tag in the message   
   shows you other messages that contain the same tag.   
      
   Apparently Telegram has something similar but I haven't studied that.   
      
      
    AA>> ...Perhaps if there was a consistent   
    AA>> approach to reacquaint the ex-BBS user and the new generation of   
    AA>> conversationalist to the Fidonet and BBS communities then maybe   
    AA>> we'd notice some increased presence by their participation.   
      
    CP> There is the issue in a nutshell. But it's more than that.   
    CP> The BBS community is where I've met some of the most innovative people   
    CP> in computers. Terminal programs, BBS programs, offline readers, door   
    CP> programs, FTN and other style networks.... while there is commercial   
    CP> software, for the most part it was done by individuals, or groups of   
    CP> people, creating these wonderful programs because they could.   
      
   The ZDnet article mentioned The Well.  The internet presence for The Well   
   looks amazing and well organized.  It's basically the same thing as Fidonet,   
   but webbased forums. Not sure if there is an offline option for messages. Its   
   philosophy of real names, etc... reads very much like the Fidonet BBSses of   
   old.   
      
      
    CP> You don't see very much of that now. Now, the BBS community seems more   
    CP> about preserving the history.   
      
    CP> Why can't it be both?   
      
   I dunno. I think the preservation part is due in part to the necessity of   
   sticking to minimum FTN standards?  But Fidonet (and its counterpart   
   othernets) have done a pretty good job being accessible via nntp, qwk, and   
   other means.   
      
      
    CP> Smart phones and tablets have been around for over a decade.   
      
    CP> But look what happens when the conversation comes up about software   
    CP> for these mobile devices to connect with FTN networks. There is very   
    CP> little interest, if not outright hostility to the idea.   
      
   I don't sense hostility as much as I sense apathy.  Time and money could be   
   limiting factor. Producing an app for the MacOS requires some kind of upfront   
   fee, I think. WRT time, there is probably the notion that something like   
   Fidonet is dying anyway, so why bother?   
      
      
    CP> Recall the reactions to my idea of running a BBS on a smartphone or   
    CP> Tablet?   
      
   You would encounter critics wherever you go.   
      
      
    CP> At best, my ideas have been met with a response that is basically,   
    CP> "Yes it is possible, but I have no interest in using that myself. Good   
    CP> luck with that."   
      
   At the moment you haven't met the right individual that shares your vision.   
      
      
    CP> Like it or not, you're going to have little, if any growth in the BBS   
    CP> network community without adapting to new technology. This doesn't   
    CP> mean discarding the past. But existing BBS software can be adapted to   
    CP> mobile device technology without making the existing tech obsolete.   
      
    CP> The proof of concept exists in the program I am using now. It's just   
    CP> not being supported.   
    CP> --   
    CP> Best regards!   
    CP> Posted using Hotdoged on Android   
    CP> --- Hotdoged/2.13.5/Android   
      
   Yes, Hotdoged seems to be a fine adaptation for Android devices. But is that   
   the one where the code is not available?   
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
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