MSGID: 1:153/757.21@fidonet 069283bb   
   REPLY: 2:292/854 13294034   
   PID: OpenXP/5.0.57 (Win32)   
   CHRS: ASCII 1   
   TZUTC: -0400   
   Hello Ward!   
      
    WD> We can't even go to the bank anymore just like that. Need   
    WD> to make an appointment, everything's on-line ... by that I   
    WD> literally mean anything not requiring a signature.   
      
   "by appointment only" was introduce during the lockdowns in     
   Canada. As a retailer, that pissed me off - especially when I     
   simply needed coinage or make a cash deposit to facilitate     
   paying the bills for which I had no significant income to pay     
   them with!   
      
      
    WD> You can't even get cash anymore at banks here ... they   
    WD> don't have it ... and if I come back from overseas travel   
    WD> and want to exchange back to local currency, I must make   
    WD> an appointment but only on Tuesday afternoon. Then you   
    WD> will be led into kind of fortified bunker where they   
    WD> handle real money.   
      
   It sounds like your country (Belgium) is conditioning its     
   people to make cash inconvenient as possible, and thus steering     
   its people to rely on cashless systems.  In Canada, I don't     
   think 100% cashless would ever work. When there is an electical     
   outtage, many POS (point-of-sale) devices for credit card and     
   debit card simply go dark. I operate my equipment on UPSes (DSL     
   runs along the plain old copper line which has it's own power     
   supply), but it's really only a temporary measure to allow     
   latent shoppers to finish a purchase.   
      
      
    WD> Need cash? There's an ATM outside ... I haven't said that's an   
    WD> improvement. But sometimes it's handy ...   
      
   And when there is an electrical outtage, the ATM is not likely     
   to give you anything.   
      
   I receive sufficient fiat cash for my personal use.  Everything     
   else (bills, online purchases) are paid by debit transactions     
   or cheque.  The only problem for me is when I need to deposit     
   additional physical cash into the bank so that I have the funds     
   to pay the forthcoming bills!   
      
      
    AA>> But eTransfer   
    AA>> here has a maximum daily limit as well as a maximum monthly   
    AA>> limit which would many times be insufficient for all my   
    AA>> payments.   
      
    WD> Weird ... at least from my POV. I can log-in to my account   
    WD> and change those limits ... And I understand why those   
    WD> limits are there...   
      
   Adjustable limits.  Wow.  What are the limit ranges?   
      
   I do see that RBC offers scalable limits, but there are     
   maximums for sending; that is what I was referring to.   
      
   Typically, those maximums are $3000 per 24hr period, $10K in 7     
   days, and $20K in 30 days - for individuals.   
      
   And.. I just read there are maximums in receiving!   
      
   For businesses the send/receive limits are extended, but those     
   can be restrictive when the client base is large. Hence, no     
   wonder cheques are still in play!   
      
   It is far more easier to write a stack of cheques totaling $10K     
   than it is to manage the daily/weekly/monthly eTransfer limits.   
      
      
    AA>> Ok.. but in Canada there is no 6-month renewal process.   
    AA>> Credit cards simply expire on the date that is printed on   
    AA>> the card -and often that is many years into the future.   
      
    WD> Maybe I put you on the wrong foot ... I meant a 6-month   
    WD> renewal is necessary when traveling outside the Euro-   
    WD> currency zone and only to the USA.   
      
    WD> So, one day I was in a restaurant and the 6-month renewal   
    WD> came up that day. Card declined.   
      
   Ah.. that still sounds like an imposition by YOUR bank's     
   system, not the USA's.  In Canada, the credit card companies     
   simply require a heads-up that you are travelling outside the     
   country and all would be good.   
      
      
    AA>> [...] But what's stopping a thief to go to the ATM   
    AA>> instead of you?  If they succeed at the ATM, the card   
    AA>> will be "verified".  It doesn't prove it was you.   
      
    WD> That is correct but the thief then also needs to know how   
    WD> to validate the card ... That is now also changing via 2-   
    WD> way validation via a smartphone and a specific site. Let   
    WD> me put it this way ... I would consider it highly unlikely   
    WD> ...   
      
   It is harder for a thief to validate a card.  However, some     
   installations have fake readers inserted in the slots of     
   machines.  I would suspect that airport ATMs and independent     
   machines are prime targets.   
      
      
    WD> For some reason, I do trust the procedures here ... maybe   
    WD> that makes me weird...   
      
   The procedures/systems for electronic payments seem fairly     
   robust. It's just the options such as being able to cancel a     
   "direct deposit" eTransfer (which was the crux of this thread)     
   should not have be allowed.  The problem there was the     
   interface design made available to the public. I hope those     
   programmers/designers lost their jobs.   
   --    
     ../|ug   
      
   --- OpenXP 5.0.57   
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