MSGID: 1:153/757.21@fidonet 04e04f4e   
   REPLY: 303.canada@1:2320/105 283bb87b   
   PID: OpenXP/5.0.57 (Win32)   
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   TZUTC: -0500   
   Hello Rob!   
      
    RM> I actually ran across some info on it since posting this   
    RM> and it's not quite as easy as it sounds, the 'sellers'   
    RM> have to do an actual identity theft to pull it off, having   
    RM> drivers license numbers and Social Insurance numbers and   
    RM> such, but we know these things still happen fairly   
    RM> frequently.   
      
   Apparently we do not exist unless some flimsy document says so.   
      
   I know people who have lost their IDs, and the banks they have     
   always patronized don't even allow them to access their money     
   even though the tellers KNOW the person! Apparently the only     
   way you can prove who you are is with a piece of paper.   
      
      
    RM> They mentioned on the news that it is run most often by   
    RM> organized crime. Something like 30 homes in Toronto alone   
    RM> have been subject to this in the past year, mostly   
    RM> Mortgage fraud, not the sale of the house fraud, which is   
    RM> much harder to pull off.   
      
   Right.. sounds like a bunch of "fake" lawyers are in on the act     
   and maybe even a banking insider is involved.   
      
      
    RM> A story mentioned that in 4 cases the house was actually   
    RM> sold, and one couple only found out about it because their   
    RM> mortgage had been paid off - which would have to be done   
    RM> before the house could be sold. (They were out of the   
    RM> country for 4 years with the house rented out.)   
      
   Yes.. CBC radio elaborated a bit more about that case too.      
   Incredible to learn that your own house has been sold     
   fraudulently like that.   
      
      
    RM> It was mentioned that 'the system' believes the new owners   
    RM> legally own the property but there's no further info on   
    RM> what can be done to get it back. It's apparently a little   
    RM> messier than buying a stolen car..   
      
   It's probably the same process to return the property to the     
   rightful owner but the players (the bank, the lawyers, etc) are     
   reluctant because a house/property is usually a bigger ticket     
   item ( 6 $ figures) as opposed to a car (5 $ figures), and     
   those players don't want to take the losses - although THEY are     
   the very parties that let it happen in the first place.   
      
      
    RM> Everyone believes something should be done to prevent this   
    RM> but it's one of those things where it will take time for   
    RM> the law to catch up with the crime.. and I think That is   
    RM> ridiculous too.. They should be able to pass something   
    RM> virtually overnight to stop this. I'd imagine just making   
    RM> the lawyer that put through the sale financially   
    RM> responsible for the whole mess might put a stop to it   
    RM> pretty quickly..   
      
   Yes.. I don't see why extra checks and balances can't be     
   implemented immediately. For starters, if I were the bank or     
   deed office facilitating the transfer, I'd question the     
   legitimacy of the lawyers participating and any documents     
   presented.   
      
   Eg. If the fraudsters were of a visible ethnic background, and     
   the legit owners were something else, then that could be a red-    
   flag.   
      
   I am a victim of a fraudulent property transfer myself, and *I*     
   wasn't even informed by the deeds office or by the     
   participating lawyer that it was taking place.   
   --   
     ../|ug   
      
   --- OpenXP 5.0.57   
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