MSGID: 2:5030/1997@fidonet 5dfd11a6   
   REPLY: 7265.binkd@1:103/705 22625da6   
   CHRS: CP866 2   
   TZUTC: 0300   
   TID: FastEcho 1.46.1 43272   
   Hello Rob!   
      
   On Fri, 20 Dec 2019 at 09:56 -0800, you wrote to me:   
      
    >> Isn't it your main argument against STARTTLS?   
    RS> Under no case is Opportunistic TLS (e.g. STARTTLS) as secure as   
    RS> Implicit TLS.   
      
   So far you didn't provide a single fact proving that good STARTTLS   
   implementation is less secure than TLS on a dedicated port.   
      
    RS> Yes, the use of self-signed certs is less secure than   
    RS> CA-signed certs, but that's a different matter and true for both   
    RS> Opportunistic and Implicit TLS.   
      
   Use of self-signed certs without a well-defined and implemented mandatory   
   mechanism to verify these certs (either trusted CA or any other similar way)   
   just turns whole security talk into a joke. Seriously.   
      
    >> Why not? It is perfectly mitigated and I explained that a few times   
    >> already. You gotta stop looking back at old SMTP implementation   
    >> that wasn't designed against active MitM attacks in the first   
    >> place.   
    RS> I look at all the applications of Opportunistic TLS and they're all   
    RS> less secure than Implicit TLS.   
      
   Examples? Maybe you are just looking at bad / not suitable implementations.   
   Not all implementations are focused on MitM protection and that is fine,   
   similar to use of self-signed certs just to make it a bit harder to sniff the   
   traffic.   
      
      
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