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|    Message 250 of 2,177    |
|    Mike Luther to All    |
|    Buick Rainer vibration    |
|    09 Jun 11 16:14:20    |
      Thoughts please?              A friend has a 2004 Buick Rainer which currently has about 70,000 miles on       it. Perfectly smooth car until about seven or eight thousand miles ago. Then       it began to show to me what I felt was 'driveshaft' vibration. At least the       vibration was definitely related to shaft rotation speed. The vehicle also       had developed tire vibration as well. Which, in fact, masked the driveshaft       speed vibration enough so that I really didn't pick up on it as early as I       should have. OK, new set of Michelin tires complete and with a very good       balance job as well as wheel check. Interestingly, one of the old tires, in       the rear, actually had a double 'hump' out of round issue, each hump being 180       degrees away so that it double bumped per tire rotation! Interesting.              A few thousnad miles before this issue, this SUV also began to show some       irregular overnight rear end drop. It was an air bag rear suspension model,       also only rear end drive and with limited slip differential as well. That got       worse and a tear down revealed air bag leaks in this as-built trailer towing       model so equipped. This issue was looked at AFTER the original complete new       tire installation. And the driveshaft speed related vibration was definitely       there following the new tire installation as was done. It was particularly       noticeable up at between 60MPH and about 78MPH, but also very defintely there       between just above 30MPH and 40MPH as well. However, it did show up enough       for an aware person to notice it between 40MPH and 60MPH as well.              In that the air bag issue 'popped up' more severely at that point, this matter       was the next thing serviced. With no need for trailer towing to be used in       the future, as well as advice that replacing air bags weould just present more       of the same failures in the future, the decision was made to replace the air       bags with steel springs. Which was done very well with NO possibility of any       driveshaft bending or damage. In that the shocks for the air bag design were       stiffer than what was told to be for the steel spring design version which is       also used for this vehicle, new matching shocks were installed as well.        Following that work, the vehicle level matched exactly the same at rest as it       had been with the air bags.              It was a little stiffer along the roadway, but seemed to be just fine.       However, now the 'driveshaft' vibration seemed to be stronger and, as the next       couple thousand miles rolled up, got MUCH worse. Especially down right over       30MPH and up just above 60MPH. In fact at 71MPH to about 76MPH it was REALLY       bad and just getting worse and worse.              The complete tire balance and roundness as well as wheel roundness was       carefully checked at two different places. Perfect, At the next real service       shop, they had it up on a lift and could spin it up and very definitely feel       it. They yanked the shaft, lowered the vehicle and spun up the rear end with       a friction wheel balancer on first one then the other wheel. No vibration.        However, the technician did find that the front U-Joint was VERY badly worn       out. He replaced both U-Joints and even that done, the vibration was still       there, though somewhat softer. OK, this is an alumninum shaft vehicle. There       is no shop here in the Bryan-College Station, Texas, area which can handle       aluminum shaft balance issues, so he got a complete other exact model shaft       from a local wrecking yard and put it in the vehicle. Same problem! Telling       us this had to be transmission problems, the vehicle went to a local       transmission shop that I have worked with for over thirty years.              They serviced the transmission, found almost NO evidence of steel or brass       filings in the fluid, nor could they find and evidence of a thing wrong in the       transmission. As well, they checked the motor mounts and as well agreed with       me that there was no evidence of vibration from the engine/transmission and       even while driving, there was absolutely no change in the vibration from       shifting it into neutral during the vibration, nor from brake tapping to pop       the torque converter out of direct into fluid mode, nor from even downshifting       into the next lower gear during driving. Now it gets interesting. We've been       together for decades as I mentioned. So they got a tow truck. They took the       shaft out and lifted the front end, then towed it down the highway up to at       least 80MPH while riding in it studying for vibration! Absolutely no       vibration at all. Smooth as silk ride.              OK, there is a really decent driveshaft service operation here that has been       here for decades as well. Though they can't handle aluminum shaft work, we       all decided that they should build a steel shaft for this less than six foot       long driveshaft and balance it. OK, it went into the vehicle. Much       smoother! But still there at just over 30MPH and still there at 64MPH and up       at 71MPH to 78MPH, it still was totally wrong such that it could not normally       be driven and would chew things up if just left that way. This group does not       do rear-end service work and there is another very capable shop here that       does. The vehicle went out there and the shop owner said it was definitely       shaft vibration. But he also noted that the ONLY way you could handle any of       these aluminum shaft vehicles, even if you were to use a steel shaft in them,       was to do the shaft balancing with a LASER balancing lathe! And there was       only one shop he had found down in Houston to which he had sent or sent the       complete vehicle for 55 different shaft jobs which was the only place he had       found that could handle this! Yes, the local shop did fine with new steel       shafts and blancing, but with the aluminum shaft vehicles this was the only       answer he had ever found that worked.              OK, I took the vehicle to Houston. They determined that the complete balance       job on the new steel shaft was absolutely wrong, as well as that the new       U-joints in this shaft were not good enough either! As well this shaft as       built had a brand new GM supplied front yoke in it which they said was fine.        But ... as laser balanced there in Houston, although the vehicle was MUCH       better yet, there was still a tiny bit of vibration down at 30MPH which the       average person would never have noticed. As well, there was still the same       60MPH+ vibration, and still the really bad 71MPH+ vibration. At that point       the crew there recalled they had a brand new aluminum GM shaft somebody had       bought but never picked up,so they crammed the new yoke, new U-Joints into it       and laser balanced it and we tested it. It was even the same part number and       source!              No vibration at all any more in the 30MPH range, Very little at all in the       60MPH range though a TINY bit could be felt at 69MPH and up until 74MPH. But       from 74MPH to about 78MPH the bad vibration was still there, though not at all       as jaw shaking as it had been. So told me there is no question but the       transmission is clean. This definitely being felt at the rear, But there is       no pinion seal leakage and though there is a little more rotational slop than       expected, there is no felt pinion irregulartity. The only thing that looks       like it can be done next will be to yank the third member and attempt to trace       this to pinion problems, one way or another. And there is no rear suspension       angularity problems or damage. Now I am familiar with the very rare issue       with a rear pinion bearing problem which does not result in pinion seal       issues. But in that there is no really noteable pinion rotation irregularity       seen, even if this is a rear pinion bearing crack or whatever problem, I       wonder?              I'm very close to a Texas Aggie graduate friend who is a lot better at this       mechanical stuff than I am. He was a double degree guy in both mechanical and       electrical engineering. The design guy later for the whole hydraulic motor       floating anchor and drilling rig precision location centering for sea drilling       rigs. As well as, among lots of other stuff,he actually was in the designer       for the Howard Hughs hydraulic stuff that carried up the Russian recovered       vessel in the Hunt for Red October. He and I agree. This has to be a       reasonance issue as well. But that said, how can this be just a pinion       bearing or third member problem? What is going on here? Where is the       reasonance and why?              Thoughts?              Mike Luther N117C at 1:117/100                     ---        * Origin: BV HUB CLL(979)696-3600 (1:117/100)    |
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