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   AUTOMOTIVE      Anything to do with cars      2,177 messages   

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   Message 1,399 of 2,177   
   Bill Burton to Roy Witt   
   Re: Stop Wasting Your Oil!   
   17 Oct 12 09:00:14   
   
   RW> MSGID: 1:387/22 507dcce5   
   RW> CHRS: CP437 2   
   RW> TZUTC: 0000   
   RW> Stop Changing Your Oil   
       
       
   I am an ASE certified master automobile and auto body technician and have been   
   certified for more than 20 years.   
       
   I have rebuilt numerous engines and the older ones do need frequent oil   
   changes to prevent harmful deposits and build up, however engines with   
   computer controlls since the late 90's can go 20,000 miles on an oil change   
   with filter changes every 5,000 miles.   
       
   I have been using full synethetic oil for over 30 years and have used the   
   above proceedure with no adverse effects. I tested a couple engines using   
   30,000 mile changes with no problems. Aircraft jets and turboprops have been   
   using synthetic oils since the late 1950's and never change the oil only the   
   filter and keep it topped off.   
       
       
     RW> By Philip Reed, Senior Consumer Advice Editor, Ronald Montoya, Consumer   
   RW> Advice Associate | Published Aug 24, 2010   
       
   RW> Oil chemistry and engine technology have evolved tremendously in recent   
   RW> years, but you'd never know it from the quick-change behavior of American   
   RW> car owners. Driven by an outdated 3,000-mile oil change commandment, they   
   RW> are unnecessarily spending millions of dollars and spilling an ocean of   
   RW> contaminated waste oil.   
       
   RW> Although the average car's oil change interval is around 7,800 miles -   
   RW> and   
   RW> as high as 20,000 miles in some cars - this wasteful cycle continues   
   RW> largely because the automotive service industry, while fully aware of the   
   RW> technological advances, continues to preach the 3,000-mile gospel as a   
   RW> way   
   RW> to keep the service bays busy. As a result, even the most cautious owners   
   RW> are dumping their engine oil twice as often as their service manuals   
   RW> recommend.   
       
   RW> After interviews with oil experts, mechanics and automakers, one thing is   
   RW> clear: The 3,000-mile oil change is a myth that should be laid to rest.   
   RW> Failing to heed the service interval in your owner's manual wastes oil   
   RW> and   
   RW> money, while compounding the environmental impact of illicit waste-oil   
   RW> dumping.   
       
   RW> Scared Into Needless Service   
   RW> Part of the blame for this over-servicing lies in our insecurities about   
   RW> increasingly complicated engines that are all but inaccessible to the   
   RW> average driver. Pop open the hood of a modern car, and a mass of plastic   
   RW> covers wall off the engine. On some vehicles, the only thing an owner can   
   RW> easily access is the oil cap.   
       
   RW> "Vehicles are so sophisticated that oil is one of the last things that   
   RW> customers can have a direct influence over," said Matt Snider, project   
   RW> engineer in GM's Fuels and Lubricants Group. "There's maybe some feeling   
   RW> that they're taking care of their vehicle if they change their oil more   
   RW> often."   
       
   RW> The 3,000-mile myth is also promoted by the quick lube industry's   
   RW> "convenient reminder" windshield sticker. It is a surprisingly effective   
   RW> tool that prompts us to continue following a dictate that our fathers (or   
   RW> grandfathers) drummed into our heads: It's your duty to change your oil   
   RW> every 3,000 miles - or your car will pay the price. But as former service   
   RW> advisor David Langness put it, the 3,000-mile oil change is "a marketing   
   RW> tactic that dealers use to get you into the service bay on a regular   
   RW> basis. Unless you go to the drag strip on weekends, you don't need it."   
       
   RW> Because busy car owners seldom read their owner's manuals, most have no   
   RW> idea of the actual oil change interval for their cars. And so they   
   RW> blindly   
   RW> follow the windshield reminder sticker, whether it's an accurate   
   RW> indicator   
   RW> of the need for an oil change or not. "I just go by the sticker in the   
   RW> windshield," one well-to-do, educated Denver Lexus owner said.   
   RW> "Otherwise,   
   RW> how would I know when to change it?"   
       
   RW> A career Navy mechanic who bought an Edmunds.com long-term car just   
   RW> shrugged when he was told that the vehicle had safely gone 13,000 miles   
   RW> between oil changes. "I'll just keep changing the oil every 5,000 miles,"   
   RW> he said. "It's worked well for me in the past."   
       
   RW> Our oil change addiction also comes from the erroneous argument that   
   RW> nearly all cars should be serviced under the "severe" schedule found in   
   RW> the owner's manual. In fact, a quiz on the Web site maintained by Jiffy   
   RW> Lube International Inc. (owned by petrochemical giant Shell Oil Company)   
   RW> recommends the severe maintenance schedule for virtually every kind of   
   RW> driving pattern.   
       
   RW> The argument that most people drive under severe conditions is losing its   
   RW> footing, however. A number of automakers, including Ford and GM, have   
   RW> contacted Edmunds data editors to request that the maintenance section of   
   RW> Edmunds' site substitute the normal maintenance schedule for the severe   
   RW> schedule that had been displayed.   
       
   RW> About the only ones that really need a 3,000-mile oil change are the   
   RW> quick-lube outlets and dealership service departments. In their internal   
   RW> industry communications, they're frank about how oil changes bring in   
   RW> customers. "Many people...know when to have their oil changed but don't   
   RW> pay that much attention to it," said an article in the National Oil and   
   RW> Lube News online newsletter. "Take advantage of that by using a window   
   RW> sticker system [and] customers will be making their way back to you in a   
   RW> few short months."   
       
   RW> Another National Oil and Lube News article tied the frequency of oil   
   RW> changes to success in pushing related products and services. For a   
   RW> midsize   
   RW> SUV, the stepped-up oil change intervals will bring in $1,800 over the   
   RW> life of the car, the article says. "A few extra services [or oil changes]   
   RW> can go a long way toward increasing the amount of money a customer will   
   RW> spend during the lifespan we estimated here," the article concludes.   
       
   RW> Today's Oil Goes the Distance   
   RW> While the car-servicing industry is clear about its reasons for believing   
   RW> in the 3,000-mile oil change, customers cling to it only because they're   
   RW> largely unaware of advances in automotive technology. Among 2010 models,   
   RW> the average recommended oil change interval, based on a normal service   
   RW> schedule, is about 7,800 miles - more than double the traditional   
   RW> 3,000-mile interval. The longest oil change interval is 20,000 miles, for   
   RW> all Porsches. The shortest oil change interval is 5,000 miles in some   
   RW> late-model Toyotas, but the carmaker has begun shifting its fleet to   
   RW> 10,000-mile oil change intervals using synthetic oil.   
       
   RW> "Oil has changed quite a bit and most of that isn't transparent to the   
   RW> average consuming public," said Robert Sutherland, principal scientist at   
   RW> Pennzoil Passenger Car Engine Lubricants. Synthetic oils, such as the   
   RW> popular Mobil 1, are stretching oil change intervals, leaving the   
   RW> 3,000-mile mark in the dust. "The great majority of new vehicles today   
   RW> have a recommended oil change interval greater than 3,000 miles," said   
   RW> Mobil spokeswoman Kristen A. Hellmer. The company's most advanced   
   RW> synthetic product (Mobil 1 Extended Performance) is guaranteed for 15,000   
   RW> miles.   
       
   RW> Today's longer oil change intervals are due to:   
       
   RW> Improved "robustness" of today's oils, with their ability to protect   
   RW> engines from wear and heat and still deliver good fuel economy with low   
   RW> emissions   
   RW> Tighter tolerances (the gap between metal moving parts) of modern   
   RW> engines   
   RW> The introduction of oil life monitoring systems, which notify the   
   RW> driver when an oil change is required and are based on the way the car is   
   RW> driven and the conditions it encounters   
       
   RW> For 2010 vehicles, 14 of 35 carmakers are now using oil life monitoring   
   RW> systems. One GM car driven by Edmunds went 13,000 miles before the   
   RW> monitoring system indicated the need for an oil change. We sent a sample   
   RW> of that oil to a lab for analysis. The results showed the oil could have   
   RW> safely delivered at least another 2,000 miles of service.   
       
   RW> Oil experts and car manufacturers are solidly on the side of the   
   RW> less-frequent oil changes that these formulation changes make possible.   
   RW> "If customers always just stayed with the 3,000-mile recommendation,   
   RW> there'd be these great strides in the robustness of oil that oil   
   RW> companies   
   RW> have made [that] wouldn't be utilized," said GM's Matt Snider. Consumers,   
   RW> he said, would be "throwing away good oil."   
       
   RW> Chris Risdon, a product education specialist for Toyota agreed, adding   
   RW> that oil technology advances that permit fewer changes are a tool to   
   RW> protect the environment. "If you're doing it half as much, that's 5   
   RW> quarts   
   RW> of oil times 1.7 million vehicles a year - that's a tremendous amount of   
   RW> waste oil that's not being circulated into the environment."   
       
   RW> Waste oil is a problem exacerbated by too-frequent oil changes, according   
   RW> to the California Integrated Waste Management Board, which has campaigned   
   RW> against the 3,000-mile dictate. The agency says that 153.5 million   
   RW> gallons   
   RW> of used oil is generated in California annually, but only 59 percent of   
   RW> it   
   RW> is recycled.   
       
   RW> Our Fit Gets Taken for a Ride   
   RW> To see what might happen to the average car owner, we took a 2007 Honda   
   RW> Fit to Jiffy Lube for an oil change. The car has an oil life monitoring   
   RW> system, and the system has recommended the past two oil change intervals   
   RW> at 5,500 miles and 7,600 miles on non-synthetic oil. In both cases, an   
   RW> engine oil analysis revealed that the oil could have provided at least   
   RW> another 2,000 miles of service.   
       
   RW> On this occasion, we told the Jiffy Lube service advisor we were   
   RW> considering synthetic Mobil 1 because we heard it could extend our oil   
   RW> change intervals. The service advisor said the synthetic oil could enable   
   RW> the Fit to go 4,000 or 5,000 miles before the oil "burned out." The Mobil   
   RW> 1 oil change had a price tag of $92.39. The technician also took the   
   RW> opportunity to upsell us, recommending a cabin air filter for $49.99. The   
   RW> total for our visit, after a $15 coupon, was $132.72.   
       
   RW> When the car was returned to us, the sticker in the window called for an   
   RW> oil change in 3,000 miles, not the 4,000 or 5,000 miles the service   
   RW> advisor had promised.   
       
   RW> If we were foolish enough to follow Jiffy Lube's 3,000-mile change   
   RW> schedule (which is essentially the advice given by all quick oil change   
   RW> outlets and dealership service departments), the Fit would undergo four   
   RW> unnecessary oil changes per year (assuming 15,000 miles per year of   
   RW> driving), wasting $369 and 15.2 quarts of perfectly good oil. Over five   
   RW> years of the car's life and 60,000 miles of driving, this would amount to   
   RW> $1,847 and 125 quarts of wasted oil. This does not include other   
   RW> "upselling" items at each visit, such as cabin air filters.   
       
   RW> Defending the 3,000-Mile Interval   
   RW> The quick oil change industry justifies its perpetuation of the   
   RW> 3,000-mile   
   RW> standard by saying that most people drive under "severe" conditions.   
   RW> Jiffy   
   RW> Lube's quiz, mentioned earlier in this article, is one example of how   
   RW> that   
   RW> notion is reinforced in drivers' minds. An oil change company   
   RW> representative said the 3,000-mile recommendation is meant to be just   
   RW> that   
   RW> - a recommendation.   
       
   RW> Scott Cudini, innovations manager for Jiffy Lube, repeatedly called the   
   RW> 3,000-mile interval a good "fallback position," meant to be a guideline   
   RW> but not a hard-and-fast rule. He added that Jiffy Lube technicians would   
   RW> initiate a "dialogue" with customers about the oil change intervals that   
   RW> apply specifically to their cars.   
       
   RW> "In most cases," Cudini said, "even if customers' cars have been   
   RW> plastered   
   RW> with that 3,000-mile sticker, they may have been told by the service   
   RW> advisor that, 'By the way, Sir/Madam, your interval is 5,500 miles.'"   
   RW> Based on our experience at Jiffy Lube and other quick-change outlets,   
   RW> technicians rarely initiate dialogues that could provide accurate   
   RW> information about oil change intervals. In fact, according to a Jiffy   
   RW> Lube   
   RW> spokesperson, the system for supplying technicians with answers only   
   RW> gives   
   RW> them information from a vehicle's severe schedule.   
       
   RW> The quick-change industry's deep fallback argument in favor of frequent   
   RW> oil changes is that they are a hedge against trouble. You can't hurt your   
   RW> engine by changing your oil too often, so doesn't that imply that it   
   RW> might   
   RW> actually help it? Well, no.   
       
   RW> Steve Mazor, manager of American Automobile Association's Research   
   RW> Center,   
   RW> said that more-frequent-than-necessary oil changes will not "gain any   
   RW> additional life for your engine or any improved fuel economy." He added,   
   RW> "In reality it will make little or no difference to the performance of   
   RW> the   
   RW> vehicle."   
       
   RW> The Right Time To Change Your Oil   
   RW> So where does this leave the car owner who was raised on the perceived   
   RW> wisdom of the 3,000-mile oil change? For a full discussion, your next   
   RW> stop   
   RW> should be our related article, "When Should You Change Your Oil?," which   
   RW> will save you hundreds of dollars over the next few years and fully   
   RW> protect your car and its warranty, while limiting the use of a natural   
   RW> resource.   
       
   RW> The short answer, meanwhile, is to consult your service manual or   
   RW> Edmunds'   
   RW> maintenance section to learn your car's actual oil change schedule. If   
   RW> your car has an oil life monitoring system, don't try to second-guess it.   
   RW> Understand how it works and follow its guidelines. To probe more deeply   
   RW> into this subject, consider sending a sample of the oil from your next   
   RW> oil   
   RW> change to a lab such as Blackstone Laboratories, for an inexpensive   
   RW> analysis. Our last suggestion? Rip that sticker off your windshield.   
       
   RW> c Edmunds Inc. All Rights Reserved. This information was extracted from   
   RW> www.edmunds.com and is subject to the terms of the Visitor Agreement at   
   RW> http://www.edmunds.com/about/visitor-agreement.html.   
       
       
   RW> R\%/itt   
       
       
   RW> --- GoldED+/W32   
   RW> * Origin: Texas Lone-Star - Texan, American, USAian  (1:387/22)   
   RW> PATH: 387/22 123/500 3634/12 15   
      
   --- D'Bridge 3.82   
    * Origin: Bill's Bar n' Grill (1:3634/15)   

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