18 Jan 16 21:35, you wrote to Holger Granholm:   
      
    RM>>> I am for example talking about D-Star/DMR/Fusion.   
      
    RM>>> There you have 3 possibilitites:   
    RM>>> 1) talk on simplex HT <-> HT over radio waves (talk around on DMR)   
    HG>> So far that is OK, but I don't understand what (talk around on DMR)   
    HG>> is.   
      
    RM> Just the DMR Name for Simplex ;)   
    RM> DMR assumes you use a repeater. So they call direct HT to HT talkaround   
   ...   
    RM> it is just a term   
      
   the ""problem"" such as it is comes when non-radio is involved... you won't be   
   able to reach those folks on the other side of the IP connection when the   
   internet is down over there... this is like all the new-fangled VOIP cr4p that   
   everyone is jumping on... how can you call your provider when the internet is   
   down?? same difference... if all your supposedly ham radio contacts are on the   
   other side of an IP connection, them you're s#ite out of luck... in a real   
   emergency, that can cost lives...   
      
    RM>>> 3) HT <-> repeater 1 <-> IP <-> repeater 2 <-> HT all over radio   
    RM>>> except the IP link between the 2 repeaters. Those two repeaters   
    RM>>> can be seperated by thousands of kilometers or whatever non-SI   
    RM>>> units you like.   
    HG>> This is where our opinions differ.   
      
    RM> Indeed ;)   
    RM> But some people here claim that there are no differing oppinions ;))   
      
   you have to know those folks and where they are coming from... you're pretty   
   new here in this echo and some folks have very strigent ideas about what the   
   HAM hobby is all about... it isn't just about making contacts... it is more   
   about being able to communicate when other modes are no longer available...   
      
    HG>> As soon as you involve an IP link, or any other transport other than   
    HG>> radio waves, it ceases to be ham radio   
      
    RM> For me it is HAM if it is related to my radio hobby.   
    RM> Including the above usecase and also for example Echolink (at least when   
    RM> there is at least one real radio repeater involved ;)   
      
   radio wave comms are the last bastion... the one that can save lives and keep   
   disparate groups connected when the worst comes... think climate change and   
   whole earth icing...   
      
    RM> Live and let live.   
      
    RM> We have different viewpoints - so what ;))   
      
   that's a huge "what" when it comes down to being able to contact others or   
   not...   
      
    HG>> D-Star, DMR and Fusion are communication methods between two parties,   
    HG>> that don't use radio waves for the entire link.   
      
    RM> Not necessarily - see above.   
    RM> Had many QSOs on the same DMR repeater, where no IP was involved.   
      
   that's only part way...   
      
    HG>> Read also in QST 12/2015 p62 about the future of digital   
    HG>> communications.   
      
    RM> Not everybody lives in the US, or is an ARRL member.   
      
   what makes you think that holger is in the US or is an ARRL member?? hint: you   
   should look at his origin line and also look at a map to find out where the   
   aland islands are ;)   
      
    RM> (I assume QST is the american HAM club magazine - anyways in my local   
    RM> austrian QSP magazine there was also recently an article about DMR and   
    RM> the DV4Mini)   
      
   never assume anything ;)   
      
    RM> As we speak about that - I assume that the DV4Mini is seen as pure   
    RM> evil coming directly from hell ;)))   
      
    RM> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&p   
   ev=_t&hl=en&ie=   
    RM> UTF- 8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dj0abr.de%2Fgerman%2Ftechnik%2Fds   
   ar%2Fdv4%2Fdv4m   
    RM> ini.htm&e dit-text=   
      
   that url is broken all to hades... you should also use a url shortening   
   service when posting any urls longer than 75 characters... plus there's the   
   fact that fidonet is a text only network and there may or may not be any sort   
   of ability to click on a link or even to copy and paste it back together   
   properly... we won't even mention systems that chop lines that are too long...   
      
    RM>>> From MY point of view having the possibility of using option 3   
    RM>>> does NOT disqualify those technologies as being HAM!   
    HG>> Neither D-Star, DMR and Fusion qualify as ham radio as soon as they   
    HG>> use an intermediate transport medium, other than radio waves!   
      
    RM> Thank you for providing your definition.   
      
    RM> As already discussed mine differs from yours.   
    RM> I think this point has been sufficiently discussed by now, and does not   
    RM> need to be reiterated.   
      
   problem here is that ""someone"" is attempting to assert their view, even with   
   opposing points, and still claiming that their view is ""the proper one""...   
   my signature text applies i this case as well as numerous others ;) ;) ;)   
      
   )\/(ark   
      
   "So let me ask you a question about this brave new world of yours. When you've   
   killed all the bad guys, and when it's all perfect, and just and fair, and   
   when you have finally got it exactly the way you want it, what are you going   
   to do with the people like you? The trouble makers. How are you going to   
   protect your glorious revolution from the next one?" - The twelfth Doctor   
      
   ... Drink Canada Dry?  This is going to take a while.   
   ---   
    * Origin:  (1:3634/12.73)