MSGID: 2:221/360.0 5ee2cdf0   
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   TID: GE/2 1.2   
   CHRS: CP437 2   
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   Hello Dan,   
      
   >LL> >You don't know that he loves your dear president.   
   >LL> LL>He was there, giving Trump all his love and full support.   
   >   
   >As are you!  Just admit that you're a Trump supporter.   
      
   Just because I have a red cap on my head that says Make America   
   Great Again doesn't mean what you think it means ...   
      
   >LL> >Why? Because you're such a big Trump supporter   
   >LL> >you want everyone to know how you feel about him?   
   >LL> LL>To remind you the oath of office requires the president to defend   
   >LL>the Constitution of the United States.   
   >   
   >So you don't refute that you're a Trump supporter.   
   >Got it.   
      
   Just because I have a huge banner on my wall declaring   
      
   *                 == TRUMP ==   
   *                  =  2020 =   
   *            == NO MORE BULLSHIT ==   
      
   doesn't mean what you think it means ...   
      
   >LL> >LL>I also quoted the text of the oath of enlistment for those   
   >LL> >LL>who serve in the military. All the oaths call to defend the   
   >LL> >LL>Constitution of the United States.   
   >LL> LL> >Military officers aren't enlisted.  You're so ignorant   
   >LL> >you don't even know when you're wrong to accept correction.   
   >   
   >You stated that officers are enlisted and swear the   
   >oath of enlistment.  They aren't and don't.  I thought   
   >that you Trumpers were really big on humping the   
   >military's leg?  As a Good Little Right-Winger, shouldn't   
   >you know that?   
      
   I stated both enlisted and commissioned swear (or affirm)   
   an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States.   
      
   The president takes a different oath, but is likewise sworn   
   to protect the Constitution of the United States.   
      
   >LL> >LL>Where do you get the bizarre idea that the military is there   
   >LL> >LL>to defend the president? Please tell. I'm all ears.   
   >LL> >   
   >LL> >I'm not sure why you would ask that, since I never said   
   >LL> >it was?   
   >LL> LL>Milley chose to defend the president, rather than the Constution   
   >LL>of the United States. IOW, he violated the very oath he took as an   
   >LL>officer. Meaning he is not an honorable man, or a gentleman.   
   >   
   >No no no.   
      
   Yes yes yes. Today he finally admitted he was wrong. Quite unlike   
   Defense Secretary Mark Esper, who never had any balls to begin with.   
      
   "I should not have been there." ~ Army Gen. Mark Milley, the Joint   
   Chiefs Chairman, 6/11/2020   
      
   Imagine that. The top soldier in the nation saying he was wrong   
   to accompany his beloved president on a walk through Lafayette   
   Square that ended in a photo op at a church none of them were   
   invited to, after having peaceful and nonviolent protesters   
   shot by rubber bullets, pepper spray, and dispersed by tear gas.   
   A photo op of his president holding a bible upside down for   
   all the world to see.   
      
   >You made a specific statement, that _I_ believe that the military is here to   
   > defend the president. Don't try to deflect.   
      
   Gen. Milley and Secretary of Defense Esper made that claim.   
   Not me. But at least Gen. Milley publicly admitted he was wrong.   
      
   "My presence in that moment andin that environment created a   
   perception of the military involved in domestic polics. As a   
   commissioned officer, it was a mistake that I have learned   
   from, and sincerely hope we all can learn from it."   
   ~ Gen. Mark Milley, 6/11/2020   
      
   There you go. ..."created a perception of the military involved   
   in domestic politics." Not the president's fault he was an idiot.   
   After all, Gen. Milley is a big boy, and knew full well what he   
   did was not acceptable behavior of an officer and a gentleman.   
      
   If Gen. Milley wanted to prove his sincerity, he would have   
   resigned his commission and joined the ranks of the unemployed.   
      
   But we all know such men never have any honor.   
      
   >  LL> >Apparently, the DC police and your hero Trump.   
   >  LL>  LL> Which brings us back to the original question I asked at   
   >  LL> the beginning of this thread -   
   >  LL>  LL> "Do you intend to obey illegal orders from the President?"   
   >   
   >And I answered that unequivocally: No.  I am not, nor   
   >was I ever, under any obligation to follow any illegal   
   >order, no matter who issued it; I would not do so.  You   
   >evidently know me better than I do, though, and disagree   
   >with me on what I would do and what I have seen other   
   >military officers do.   
      
   Notice the president and his entourage waited until the protesters   
   had been cleared for them to make their appearance at the church.   
      
   Fact of the matter is you have no idea what you would do   
   in certain situations.   
      
   If during a time of war your commanding officer gives you a   
   sidearm and tells you to take a prisoner to headquarters and   
   return in fifteen minutes, you would do it - even though it   
   would take you a full hour driving through heavy fighting in   
   enemy territory. You would do it just to save your own sorry   
   skin, knowing what your commanding officer would do to you   
   if you failed to follow that order.   
      
   IOW, your commanding office just told you to take the prisoner   
   outside and execute him, then return to him for further orders.   
      
   Soldiers exist to follow orders. That's it. They are not there   
   to think. Only to do what they are told. Nothing more, nothing   
   less. The commander in chief is head honcho, and all his toy   
   soldiers and sailors and airmen are compelled to comply. Even   
   his spacemen, although not really sure what branch the space   
   force is supposed to be part of. In Robert Heinlein's world the   
   spacemen were Marines. But this is Trumpland ...   
      
   >But you've also admitted to being a Trump supporter, so   
   >this is unsurprising.   
      
   I said I wear a red hat and have a huge banner on my wall.   
   How does that make me a Trump supporter?   
      
   >Do you support his little concentration camps for kids, or cracking down on   
   > protesters?   
      
   Trump (and Milley) waited until the protesters went home before   
   making his appearance at the church ...   
      
   >  LL> Given that you are retired military, and no longer active, it is   
   >   
   >I am not retired, as I told you.  That's a very specific   
   >status; I served and left the service prior to retirement.   
   >I am honorably discharged.   
      
   So is US Senator Tammy Duckworth. But at least you still have legs   
   to stand on. Unlike so many others, some who have lost far more.   
      
   >LL>a question you can easily dodge by claiming you are too old or some   
   >LL>other chickenshit excuse.   
   >   
   >I don't see how I need to "dodge" the question since I   
   >answered it clearly and unequivocally.  Perhaps you didn't   
   >understand the answer, or it didn't fit with your   
   >preconceptions, and so you are having a hard time either   
   >understanding or accepting it?   
      
   Gen. Milley has spent 40 years in uniform. He knew what he was   
   asked to do was wrong, but he chose to do it anyway. At least he   
   had the decency to publicly admit he was wrong. Quite unlike the   
   Secretary of Defense, who has chosen not to say a thing. And   
   you and me and the entire world knows that Donald Trump will never   
   admit he was wrong. About anything.   
      
   So. There you go. Donald Trump is right. Donald Trump is always right.   
   Really not hard to say. We even had a candidate who ran for governor   
   last year, a novice politician in his 70s who had never run for office   
   before, his entire campaign being "Donald Trump is right." He made   
   the runoff, and came within 40,000 votes of winning against the   
   incumbent governor.   
      
   >LL>However, the military man who originally   
   >LL>asked the question answered it himself by his own actions - by   
   >LL>joining the president as troops opened fire on peaceful protesters   
   >LL>who lawfully did their thing on holy ground.   
   >   
   >Except he actually wasn't there for the clearing of Lafayette   
   >park.   
      
   The event was on June 1. The president and his entourage waited   
   until the crowd had been forcibly dispersed. This was in daylight   
   hours, not at night. Then they made their appearance so he could   
   have a photo op of himself holding a bible upside down for all   
   the world to see.   
      
   Note that Gen. Milley waited until today before publicly admitting   
   he was wrong. Note that Secretary of Defense Esper has never said   
   anything publicly that he had erred by being with Donald Trump at   
   that moment.   
      
   >Knowing that you support Trump, I understand that you have a hard time with   
   > facts and nuance.   
      
   Facts? There are no facts! Alternative facts, yes! But facts?   
   You really should know better than to ask any Trumpster that question.   
      
   >LL> >Oh, and I never said I was retired.  I am discharged.   
   >LL> LL>So was Jack Nicholson, with a bit of help from Tom Cruise.   
   >LL>Please. Tell us how you did it. Was your road trip every bit   
   >LL>as fun as the one Jack took?   
   >   
   >Uh...you join, you serve, and you get out.   
      
   If you don't get yourself killed first.   
      
   >If you never do anything illegal or immoral while in, you likely get an   
   > honorable discharge;   
      
   What if you're nuts? Or go nuts after you got in? Happens a lot   
   to soldiers. And Marines. Especially during times of war. But also   
   during training, as some never quite make it to the big leagues.   
      
   >possibly a medical, which is technically a general discharge, though under   
   > honorable circumstances.   
      
   Is there a difference? Should there be a difference? I was playing   
   a Vietnam veteran during a rated chess tournament, and was well on   
   my way to having the guy in checkmate, when all of a sudden he got   
   up and hit me, knocking me off my chair along with all the pieces   
   on the board. I mean, that guy clocked me. And then he apologized.   
   Not really his fault, as many veterans have problems after they   
   return home from wherever they were stationed.   
      
   >It's really not that hard, though it probably doesn't mesh   
   >with your biases, which may be why you have such a hard time   
   >understanding it.  That may also have something to do with   
   >your love for your president and Dear Leader, Donald Trump.   
      
   Nobody can understand Trump like a Trumpster! He knows us   
   better than we know ourselves! That is the beauty of what the   
   rest of the world can only imagine ...   
      
   >LL>Hey. What do you expect? I'm a civvie. Just like Trump!   
   >LL>Born to be wild ...   
   >   
   >You even revel in being like him!  Amazing.   
      
   All you need to do is find a lemon, slice it in half, and   
   squeeze all the lemon juice into your hair, letting it sit   
   overnight. In the morning, you will wake up with hair the   
   same shade of orange as Trump!   
      
   >LL> >No no no.  You said that _I_ was thought that what   
   >LL> >happened to those protesters was deserved.  Don't   
   >LL> >deflect; tell me where _I_ said that.  Be specific.   
   >LL> LL>All of the protesters were peaceful, lawfully protesting   
   >LL>what they viewed as a wrong. It was others who had infiltrated   
   >LL>their ranks who were causing trouble, as they had no interest   
   >LL>in actually protesting a thing.   
   >   
   >No no no.  You're trying to change the subject again.   
   >You said that _I_ said those protesters deserved what   
   >happened to them.  Tell me exactly where I said that.   
   >Exactly.  Go ahead; I'll wait.   
      
   My words and actions do not mean a thing. It is the military   
   who have to worry about that, as Gen. Milley explained -   
      
   "And I am not immune. That sparked a national debate about   
   the role of the military in civil society. We must hold dear   
   the principle of an apolitical military that is so deeply   
   rooted in the very essenceof our republic. It takes time and   
   work andeffort, but it may be the most important thing each   
   and every one of us does every single day."   
   ~ Gen. Mark Milley, 6/11/2020   
      
   Note the military did not agree with President Bill Clinton's   
   desire to send in US troops to Serbia, in order to stop ethnic   
   cleansing. There were hearings in the Congress, the military   
   leaders using those televised hearings it would take an invasion   
   force of at least half a million US soldiers in order to do what   
   President Clinton had wanted. So the majority Republican Congress   
   turned a thumbs down to the President, telling him no US troops   
   for you to send. None whatsoever.   
      
   President Clinton then ordered Gen. Wesley Clark to take charge,   
   conducting a war on Serbia by air power alone. And it worked.   
   Not a single US casualty, the only war ever won by air power alone.   
   The Serbs left Kosovo, meaning more ethnic cleansing. And Kosovans   
   made a statue of Bill Clinton, which they placed right in the   
   center of the town square.   
      
   A few years later, George W. Bush wanted to send hundreds of   
   thousands of US troops to Iraq. Hearings were held in the Congress,   
   and the military was all gung-ho and ready for action. Didn't   
   matter how many US troops were needed, their boy could have as   
   many as he wanted.   
      
   When Clinton lied, nobody died.   
   When Bush lied, thousands died.   
      
   Donald Trump claims he wants to bring all our troops home.   
   He can start with Iraq.   
      
   >LL>You see, trouble is where you find it. And those troublemakers   
   >LL>knew exactly where to go in order to find the kind of trouble they   
   >LL>could make.   
   >LL> LL>Most, if not all, of the troublemakers were right-wing radicals.   
   >   
   >Your kinda people, huh?   
      
   Yeah. I grew up in the South. Knew a preacher who marched in Selma.   
   He was lynched at a young age, losing his balls but surviving. His   
   wife at the time did not, along with two of his kids, as the same   
   folks who carved him up set his house on fire. One of his surviving   
   sons later was arrested and charged with first degree murder. But   
   later released due to lack of evidence. That is what happens to   
   black folks in a white man's world.   
      
   >You want to see people in cages.   
      
   Better to release them so contact tracers can hunt them down.   
      
   >You want to see the police beat people on the street.   
      
   Only live on television, cold drink in hand.   
      
   >You want to see a Trump dictatorship.   
      
   Trump is always right.   
      
   >LL>What we have, in effect, is a president gone mad. A president who   
   >LL>wants to make war on peaceful protesters, who have a Constitutional   
   >LL>right to protest.   
   >   
   >So why are you such a booster of his?   
      
   United we stand, divided we fall. The quickest and surest way   
   to unite us is to have a uniter in charge. And you have to admit,   
   nobody has united us more than The Great Uniter himself, Donald   
   Trump.   
      
   >LL>There are pictures on social media verifying this for anybody   
   >LL>who bothers taking a look.   
   >   
   >https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/06/08/timeli   
   e-trump-church-   
   >photo-op/   
   >   
      
   There are lots of pictures floating about. Both digital and print.   
      
   >LL> >You're just peachy about the death of 100,000 Americans?   
   >LL> LL>We cure ourselves by dying faster. That is the new plan.   
   >LL>If one can call it that.   
   >   
   >I can see you're perfectly fine with Trump's handling of   
   >the pandemic.   
      
   The man with no plan. Makes perfect sense to me.   
      
   >LL>Why are more African Americans dying, and at a faster rate, than   
   >LL>other groups? Because they are the ones who keep us fed, and keep   
   >LL>us clothed, and keep us housed.   
   >   
   >So you're fine with keeping black people oppressed as long   
   >as you are kept in clothing, housing and fed?  That's basically   
   >what you're saying.   
      
   Melinda Gates spilled the beans as to what it is all about.   
   The vaccine will first be given to doctors and nurses. Then   
   it will be given to African Americans. Once the doctors and   
   nurses are out of the way, there will not be anybody left   
   to treat the African Americans who get the vaccine. Then the   
   contact tracers will hunt them down and place them in camps.   
   Whether it is FEMA camps or military camps or camps by any   
   other name, it will be camps for those who are sick with   
   no medical care available.   
      
   Once the sick people are out of the way, white folks will   
   have nothing to worry about, as the US will be disease-free.   
      
   Now that is what I call a plan!   
      
   >LL> >Meanwhile, you fully support your president.   
   >LL> LL>What kind of oath did you take?   
   >   
   >We're not talking about me; we're talking about you   
   >and your support for Trump.   
      
   The only oath Trumpsters have taken is "Trump is always right!"   
   Of course, wearing a red cap is all that is needed. Not really   
   necessary for anybody to say a thing.   
      
   >LL> >Maybe you and Ammon Bundy should get together and go   
   >LL> >bowling.  Then you can hit up a Trump rally together.   
   >LL> LL>Why do you hate the Constitution of the United States?   
   >LL>It is a beautiful document, written on parchment, although   
   >LL>the ink is brown and kinda fading ...   
   >   
   >It's not me that hates it; it's you.  You and your   
   >fellow Trump supporters, who align yourselves with   
   >those who pervert it and its meaning to retain your   
   >hold on power.  It's really sad.   
      
   Have you read the president's oath of office? It is noted,   
   word for word, in Article II, Section 1. There is no mention   
   of public safety. None whatsoever. Please read it and tell   
   me I am wrong.   
      
   >LL>I support the will of the people. Whatever that happens to be.   
   >   
   >So you're ok with the right-wing putting kids in   
   >concentration camps.  With Trump destroying the planet   
   >and the presidency.  With murder of black and brown   
   >bodies in the name of "law and order". With over a   
   >hundred thousand of your fellow Americans dying.   
      
   We [the people] get what we deserve.   
      
   "What we are seeing is the long shadow of our original sin   
   in Jamestown 401 years ago." ~Gen. Mark Milley, 6/11/2020   
      
   >Wow.   
      
   Yeah. The first three words of the US Constitution.   
   We the People.   
      
   --Lee   
      
   --    
   It Ain't Payday If It Ain't Nuts In Your Mouth   
   --- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb   
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