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 %                 The High End Audio Digested Mailing List                   %
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       Volume 20 Number 89                 Thursday, August 12, 1993
 
 
Today's Topics
--------------
 
 Troubleshooting!
 The Future of Turntables (was Re: Linn LP12 or VPI?)
 Ultradisc II's - are they HDCD?
 Re: Vander'/ribbon = HELP!!
 Re: Where to buy used tubes ?
 Re: tonal effects by cables
 Re: Tube ruminations.
 FOR SALE: Maggies, SP-9, Sota & more ...
 Cabling (again...)
 A request for advices on CD modifications
 Re: Belden Cables & Digital Interconnect
 Re: Interesting Experience - any comments?
 Cables
 Re: Belden 89269 vs. 9269
 Re: Low-cost high-end pre/power amp?
 The Vandy/Maggie search cont.
 Re: Where to buy used tubes ?
 FOR SALE: Interconnects
 The Future of Turntables (and LPs)
 Re: Q: Electrocompaniet Preampliwire I
 You make the call....
 Re: Thiel 2.2 and ML Aerius
 Grounding situation regarding my interesting experience
 FOR SALE: VTL Compact 100
 Pas3 Schematics wanted
 Where can I get Fried speakers?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 18:03:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: FORTUNATO@delphi.com
Subject: Troubleshooting!

       Hello all.  I am currently experiencing a problem with my amplifier
in my home stereo setup and I figured one of you folks may be able to help
me out.  I don't think this would be considered high end audio, but there
are so many knowledgable people who read this I figured someone might throw
me an idea or two. :)
 
        Anyhow, the amplifier is a Kenwood model KR-A5030 and the trouble
I am having is that I no longer get a good signal out of the right channel
anymore.  I have to keep the balance control almost all the way to the right
to get a balanced stereo image.  I've tried rewiring the speakers, as well 
as a second set of speakers and tried different inputs and sources so I'm 
sure that the amplifier is the source of my troubles at this point.  I had 
thought perhaps it was a output transistor that had gone bad, but from what 
I've been told when a transistor goes it usually goes completely and I 
wouldn't have any output at all. I'd appreciate any suggestions on where to
begin troubleshooting this problem.  What should I be looking for?  A bad
cap? Bad diode?  If its a chip I may just have to send it in for repair as
I have no specs on those types of things.. Thanks!
                                                -Scott
 
============================================================================
fortunato@delphi.com                               Reaching out from
bolivar@holonet.net                                 Long Island, NY
 
 "Sing the Hare Hare, Dance the Hoochie Koo" -Robert Plant
=============================================================================
 

------------------------------
 
From: chowkwan@alumni.cco.caltech.edu (Raymond Maihin Chowkwanyun)
Subject: The Future of Turntables (was Re: Linn LP12 or VPI?)
Date: 10 Aug 93 15:38:01

In article <23j39mINNklc@uwm.edu> infmx!koetsu!simond@uunet.UU.NET (Simon David) writes:

   My thoughts on the future:
   In the twilight years of LP it seems that a few companies are, or are
   about to produce very expensive turntables branded as "the last
   turntable you'll buy".  EG SME 30. Along with the already expensive
   offerings from Goldmund, Basis etc.  Is that really going to be it?  In
   a few years will we only have the choice of something cheap 'n'
   cheerful from the lo-end or a mega expensive chunk, of state of the
   art, overkill engineering?  Linn and Naim (big in UK high end) both
   have a CD player now after previously rubbishing digital.  Will they
   still be as commited to LP playback in 5, 10, 15 yrs as they are now?

As a confirmed vinylphile, I enjoyed your post and all the other
posts in this thread.  

First of all: Goldmund is out of the turntable game.  They have
destroyed all the molds and machine tools.  I guess they got
tired of audiophiles repeatedly asking for one more production
run.

Absolute SOund lists the following turntable manufacturers
(I know this list is incomplete):

Audiomeca/Pierre Lurne
Audio-Produkter
Aura
Basis
Denon
Immedia (these are the folks behind the Parnassus and Clavis and
         formerly of SOTA)
Linn
Merrill Audio
J.A. Michell
Oracle
Pink Triangle
Revolver
Rockport
Roksan
SME
SOTA
Thorens
Transparent Audio Lab
VPI
Voyd

Now doesn't that make you feel better?

-- ray

------------------------------
 
From: SUTTONK@lincoln.cri.nz (Kevin Sutton)
Subject: Ultradisc II's - are they HDCD?
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 23:42:07 GMT

This may have been asked in this newsgroup before, but here goes:

I have a couple of Mobile Fidelity 'Ultradiscs' which are of much higher 
quality than the equivalent standard CD's.  A friend of mine had heard that 
the new 'Ultradisc II's' were HDCD encoded.  My understanding was that they 
were using the Sony Super-Bit-Mapping system rather than HDCD.  Are either 
of us correct???

Kevin

Murphy's First Law of Laboratory Practise:-
"Hot glassware looks just like cold glassware"

Kevin Sutton    E-mail : suttonk@Lincoln.cri.nz
Crop & Food Research Limited, Private Bag 4704,
Christchurch, NEW ZEALAND

------------------------------
 
From: chowkwan@alumni.cco.caltech.edu (Raymond Maihin Chowkwanyun)
Subject: Re: Vander'/ribbon = HELP!!
Date: 10 Aug 93 15:52:46

In article <23lo3jINNd3k@uwm.edu> sl45z@cc.usu.edu writes:

>requests advice about choosing between vandies and maggies.
>likes the vandies for bass, the maggies for mids and highes.

You should listen to the Eminent Technology 8.  The mids/
highs use similar technology to the maggies.  (maggies 
have magnets on one side of driver panel, ET has magnets on both sides).
The bass is handled by a conventional cone.  Cost is $1,500 new,
used is around $1,100.  This speaker won't go as low as the
vandersteen but it will be better than the maggie you heard.
The ET8 is power hungry.  A good match would be PS Audio 200 watt amp
which is what I heard it with.  THe new Genesis amp might work too.
(Paul McGowan (the P of PS) worked on the Genesis).

ET8 upgrades are Cardas wiring and Sound Anchor stand.  I would
say the stand is probably the more important as well as being
less expensive.

-- ray

------------------------------
 
From: chowkwan@alumni.cco.caltech.edu (Raymond Maihin Chowkwanyun)
Subject: Re: Where to buy used tubes ?
Date: 10 Aug 93 16:23:23

In article <23tlibINN51s@uwm.edu> v30jyj@v0sun2.ccl.itri.org.tw (jan yungjung) writes:

    Can anybody suggest a reliable source for used Mullard EL-34 and
    Telefunken 12AX7 ? 

If you can't find the Mullards, the Tesla EL34 should be a pretty
good substitute.  Unfortunately, the Tesla factory has gone
out of production.  Sigh.  Seems they were part of a larger entity
that got sold and the new owners decided to close down tube
production.  However, there should be a goodly supply of Teslas
in stock.

Finally, do not overlook the KT77.  It was Mullard's attempt to make
a tube that was better than the EL34 (just as the KT88 was a better
6550).  The KT77 is a direct plug-in replacement for the EL34.

-- ray

------------------------------
 
From: PFEIFFER@usm.uni-muenchen.de (M.Pfeiffer)
Subject: Re: tonal effects by cables
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 21:37:56 GMT

In <2486rsINNt2a@uwm.edu> ldivinag@s1.csuhayward.edu writes:

> To me, IMHO, ic's and speaker cable do just one thing: connect.  That's
> why tone controls and equalizers exists.  Well, that's my two cents
> worth... any comments?

OK, then buy an amp for $100, a pair of $50 speaker, connect them with a 
thin wire and adjust the dozen control knobs until the sound is best.

Then, - go and listen to a *high-end* system :-)
Do you notice the difference?

Then, - look at the settings of the equalizer at the high-end system.
(I have never seen a high-end system *with* an equalizer :-)

Michael

------------------------------
 
From: chowkwan@alumni.cco.caltech.edu (Raymond Maihin Chowkwanyun)
Subject: Re: Tube ruminations.
Date: 10 Aug 93 16:39:43

In article <245i3rINN90i@uwm.edu> henry@ego.psych.mcgill.ca (Henry Pasternack) writes:

>      The moral of the story is don't believe everything you read.  VTL's
>   Manley himself admits that a 6L6 pair in pure Class A triode mode is only
>   good for 7-10W (in the VTL book).  Later on, he is claiming 2.5 to 4 times
>   this power from his 120 amplifier in triode mode.

>      I tore a lot of hair trying to figure out this paradox.  By the way,

Maybe that's because the 120 uses 807 tubes and not 6L6 tubes.  
I know, I'm listening to a pair of 120's right now.   Before you
cast aspersions, how about getting your facts straight?  Also,
a call to David or Luke Manley might help your receding hairline.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of negative BS that is thrown
at the VTL brand.  OK, some other manufacturers want to get into
tube amps.  Great, but is it really necessary to put down a
competitor to do it?  Modjeski slammed the KT90 tube.  Eventually
Jadis and others adopted it.  

If you don't like VTL on the basis of sonic issues, fair enough
but don't do them down on reliablity.  They are built
rock-solid and the factory stands behind their products.
That lifetime transferable warranty is for real.

-- ray

------------------------------
 
From: ryo@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Ryo Inoue H3-384)
Subject: FOR SALE: Maggies, SP-9, Sota & more ...
Date: 10 Aug 93 02:21:18 GMT

SOTA Sapphire MK2-3  \
Sumiko FT3 Arm        >     $1000
Audioquest AQ1000    /

Perreaux 1850 Power Amps    $1600
   w/ Distec Pwr Cords

Audio Research SP-9 Mk1      $950

Magnepan MG3A
   w/Sound Anchor Stands    $1200 + $250

3 X 1M Pair MIT330 Interconnect  $150

2 X Pair 8ft Monster M1          $100

Please direct all inquiries to Frank Huang at (914) 666-0550.

------------------------------
 
From: Andy Sheen <Andy.Sheen@src.bae.co.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 09:06:26 BST
Subject: Cabling (again...)

A few questions I have from the last (20.88) digest of r.a.h-e...

jl@whamt.att.com said:

... 

> Here are some specs right out of Belden's master catalog:

[comparison of 89269 and 9269 deleted...]

> If there are any reasons why these cables are NOT identical,
> please post on the net and let everyone know.

I would *really* like to know if anyone has tried these cables together.
Here in the UK, we can only buy 450' reels of 89269 at a whopping 200 uk
pounds (since it has to be specially imported from the States). Now unless
I can get 20 or so audiophiles interested in splitting this reel, its way
out of my price range. The 9269 is *much* cheaper (and available in smaller
reels - we even have some old unused 3270 terminals around :) so I'd like
to get a comparison of the two.

torgd@tolstoy.lerc.nasa.gov (Russell DeAnna) also said:

>  
>  I suggest you read the July issue of Audio magazine. They
>  measured a wide range of speaker cables with two different
>  amplifiers. They present plots of cable impedance versus
>  frequency for each of the 12 cables under study.  They
>  also include tables showing each cables resistance, capacitance,
>  and inductance for a 12-foot length.

I don't subscribe to Audio, nor can I get access to back issues. Would
anyone care to post a summary of the findings...

Thanks, in advance.

--
Andy Sheen                                 Email: Andy.Sheen@src.bae.co.uk
FPC 267, British Aerospace PLC,            Tel:   +44-272-363547
P.O. Box 5, Filton,                        Fax:   +44-272-363733
Bristol. BS12 7QW                          #include <disclaimer.h>

------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 13:07:24 CST  
From: "Jan Ove Tangen" <Jan.O.Tangen@tdh.no>
Subject: A request for advices on CD modifications

As a newcomer both in this forum and to the "trade" of modifying CD players,
I want some advices from the great expertise among the readers of
"Info-High-End-Digest".
* What are best suited to modifications, Bitstream- or Multibitplayers?
* What kind of players benefit the most of such modifications, Magnavox,
  Rotel, Sony etc.?
* Is there anyone who could give me some prescriptions on how to do
  modifications? (Remember, I am a novice, but keen to learn).

Thanks from Norway.

Jan Ove Tangen
e-mail tangen@tdh.no

------------------------------
 
From: <formail.TCPBRIDGE.FS3.CO-OP%smte@formail.formation.com>  (chris andrichak)
Subject: Re: Belden Cables & Digital Interconnect
Date: Wed Aug 11 08:27:35 1993

The _big_ difference between the 89269 and the 9269 that were
posted here would seem to me to be the dielectrics.
I can't say anything about the sound quality, but is the price
difference that much? I'd go with the 89269 'cause the teflon is
a better dielectric than the PVC.

Digital Interconnect: In his post, Craig Stark said that his
unshielded litz sounded better than his _heavily_ shielded coax.
  Was the coax high capacitance? (or higher than the litz?) If
so, that combined with a not-so-well designed dig out stage on
your player could be rounding some square pulses and changing the
timing, AKA jitter. My guess is that you'd have to have some
pretty serious cap loading to do this, though.
chris - andriccs@duvm.ocs.drexel.edu

  "This parrot is no more. It has ceased to be. It has expired
  and gone to meet its maker." - MP

------------------------------
 
From: Eric.Raquette@ericom.ericsson.se
Subject: Re: Interesting Experience - any comments?
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 12:20:40 GMT

  If you connect a grounded equipment with a filter to an ungrounded outlet, you
put the chassis at half the line voltage !!

                             L  
              live    -----*****------------------------------ live to amp
                                    I          I
                                    I         ___
                                    I         ___ C y
                                   ___         I
240/120 V AC                       ___  C x    I----------  chassis ground   
                                    I          I             now at 120/2 V AC
                                    I         ___
                                    I         ___ C y 
                             L      I          I
              neutral -----*****------------------------------ neutral to amp

You can still use a AC line filter ,but you must leave the ground pin unconnected. 

Eric Raquette            

------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 08:57:58 EDT
From: Scott Dorsey <kludge@grissom.larc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Cables

> What I know about all this cable stuff could not fill a shot
> glass.  It does, however, look to me that these two cables are
> *very* alike.  Unless you are going to wire the family Space
> Shuttle for sound, go with the 9269 and save even more money.

Nope, they are amazingly different.  One of them uses a teflon dielectric,
which is the reason for the higher temperature rating.  Teflon, while it's
a lot more expensive, is a much better dielectric material.  You will notice
a sound difference between the two cables.

This stuff is a plenum-grade RG-62, for those who haven't been following
the discussion.
--scott

Incidentally, you might also look into the Belden low-triboelectric
noise cables.  For balanced lines, I prefer using Appletalk network
cable, which is nicely Teflon insulated, has a good solid shield, is
very flexible, and available surplus all over the place.

------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 10:36:04 EDT
From: jas@proteon.com (John A. Shriver)
Subject: Re: Belden 89269 vs. 9269

(If you do not believe that capacitor dielectrics can affect sound,
please delete this message now before you are further annoyed.)

I would think that there would be a big difference between 89269 and
9269.  The big difference is the dielectric material.  Polyethlene has
massive dielectic absorbtion, no high-end audio gear would use a
capacitor with polyethylene dielectric.  Only the very junkiest
capacitors would be made of polyethylene, the baseline capacitor
dielectric is now Mylar.  One really does not want a cable with high
dielectric absorbtion shunting your signal, providing time-smearing.

You really want the Teflon cable.  Teflon is one of the most highly
regarded (and MEASURABLY SO) capacitor dielectrics.  Capacitors made
of it are almost prohibitively expensive.  (Teflon capacitors are
mostly used in test instruments.)

However, due to fire codes on "return air spaces", there is a huge
market for Teflon-insulated cable, which has brought the price of them
within reach.  Hooray for audio!

I think that dielectric material and RF sheilding are the primary
"real" differences between audio cables.  I think shapes, metal, etc.,
are probably very secondary.

 

------------------------------
 
Date:         Wed, 11 Aug 93 10:01:55 EDT
From: Chris Boylan <CSSCJB@IBIVM.IBMMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Low-cost high-end pre/power amp?

>From: John Stimson <jstimson@jarthur.Claremont.EDU>
>Subject: Low-cost high-end pre/power amp?
>Date: Mon, 9 Aug 1993 22:03:28 GMT
>
>(stuff deleted)
>
>To restate, as clearly as possible:
>
>I wish to purchase a used amplification setup (either separates or
>integrad amp) for $500-600 maximum (cheaper would be much preferred).
>It should beat the tar out of my Yamaha integrated amp, which claims
>to be 100wpc but isn't really, as far as I can tell.  This objective
>should not be vary difficult.
>
>How much, proportionally, should I spend on the preamp?  And what
>models are the best in my price range?
>
>What amplifiers are the best in my price range?
>
John,
  I'm quite happy with my Adcom GTP400 (tuner-preamp) which includes a
phono section that's plenty good for my needs, 2 tape loops, CD input,
a decent sounding built-in tuner, and separate RECORD and LISTEN knobs
(very handy if you make as many recordings as I do).  I think the GTP400
sounds much better than its brother the GTP500 (remote-controlled version
which sells for a bit more and has electronic source switching rather
than knobs and switches).
  I haven't checked prices lately, but I think a used GTP400 wouldn't
be outside your price range.  For an amp, check out the Adcom 535,
545, and 555.  Also, believe it or not, the Sony ES amps sound really
good for the money.
  A while back, I used to sell Adcom, Sony ES, and Aragon (Yamaha, too
but I think they're in a different league).  The Aragon sounded best
but the Sony ES certainly held its own for about 1/3 the price--around
$450 for the 100-watt Sony ES vs. $1200 or so for the 100-watt Aragon
(then).  The prices have probably gone up a bit.

  I don't think you need to take huge steps here and get into Krell,
Conrad Johnson, et. al. to hear a difference.  The Adcom tuner-preamp
used with any of the amps I mentioned will be a BIG improvement
over the Yamaha integrated amp and, and, IMHO will keep you happy for a
good while (not forever, of course, but do you know ANY audiophiles who
are COMPLETELY happy with their systems?).

Have fun!

---Chris Boylan

------------------------------
 
From: sl45z@cc.usu.edu
Subject: The Vandy/Maggie search cont.
Date: 11 Aug 93 09:18:04 MDT

	The saga conmtinues:
	My search for speakers has brought me yet to another turn.  As of late
I've been comparing the Magnepan line against Vandersteen, trying to weigh the
trade offs and decide which I'd be happier with.  (my wife likes the Maggies)
	My first visit to the Maggie store turned out to be enlightening,
though sprinkled with horse shit.  Let me explain.  I auditioned the SMGb
speakers and was impressed with the highs and mids, but felt cheated in the
bass.  Mr. Salesman said the SMGb was rated to 40Hz and net people have told me
it goes even lower. (our first sprinkling)  Yesterday, with a different
salesman, I recieved some literature on the SMGb.  Seems that Magnepan only
rates them to 50Hz.  Not a casual mistake, IMO.  10Hz in the bass range is a
huge difference.
	Yesterday I decided to listen to the next step up (1.5 ??) and was
pleased by the increased bass response.  These are rated to 45Hz and $1000 a
pair.  The highs were excellent again, and with the added bass they offered the
first full sound.  Higher models are completely out of my price range, so I
didn't go beyond the 1.5.  More on the bass; It seemed to be directional in all
but the lowest frequencies, though this may be attributed to the small room. 
It also came across a bit flat and unnatural sounding, like it was forced, but
it definately wasn't too loud compared to the rest of the music.  For all of
the beatiful imaging and clarity, the sound was still a bit cold.
	I was told that 60 watts/channel would handle the Magnepan speaker "no
problem" and go good and loud, as long as I wasn't trying to entertain a frat
party.  Both the SMGb and 1.5 are rated at 85db efficient.  This is supposed
to be "not bad at all" and "average" for the price range.  That's pushing a
4 ohm load.  As conmparison, the Vandersteen 1B is 90db efficient at 6.8 ohm.
and the 2Ce is 88db at 6.8.  For those who understand this better than I, I'd
like to know just how big the difference is here.  My understanding is that the
difference is HUGE!  I plan on running this on 60 watt/channel of Rotel power.
	The Gripper:  The place who carries Magnepan, Audio Source, has lost
their contract to carry them and is probably just trying to clear their
inventory.  Do you think Audio Source told me this?  No.  Audition Audio, home
of the Vandersteens recieved a call from Magnepan begging them to take their
line back. (they had it for 6 years)  It miffed me a bit to be so seriously
considering the Maggies and then find that the store won't be around to give me
support and service.  In my book, that's figured into the price of any
component.  I can see why they would keep their mouth shut, but I still don't
feel it was a very honest approach.  SLC people who are shopping for speakers
ought to be aware of this.
	The Vandersteens, most likely to be under my Christmas Tree, come back
again and again as the reasonable, intelligent choice.  The sound, though not
as bright and clear as the maggies, still images very well and is warmer and
friendlier to listen to.  As my wife put it, "I could listen to them (2Ce)
forever."  The bass is distinguished and defined.  No mud and it comes through
warmly to 38Hz on the 1B and considerably lower on the 2Ce. (29Hz, I think)
	Has anyone else grown tired of listening to the Maggies?  The music,
though so clear, seemed fatiguing somehow?  Maybe it's just the magneplanar
design?  I've never felt that way about the 1B or 2Ce.  Comments?
	Happy shopping!  I'm one big step closer to lawful possesion of my own
home stereo.
		Travis (TC)

-- 
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
	There is the Dark.  There is the Light.  
	They stand in opposition in all things.
	There is the world.
	Us.
	Why should we stand in opposition,
	Denying the existance of both?
	Welcoming twilight and shadow?
						Anonymous
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| 
	

------------------------------
 
From: moskowit@panix.com (Len Moskowitz)
Subject: Re: Where to buy used tubes ?
Date: 11 Aug 1993 11:58:00 -0400

In article <23tlibINN51s@uwm.edu> v30jyj@v0sun2.ccl.itri.org.tw (jan yungjung) writes:

>    Can anybody suggest a reliable source for used Mullard EL-34 and
>    Telefunken 12AX7 ? 

You might try Mendelson Electronics on First Street in Dayton, Ohio.
They're upstairs from Parts Express.

-- 
Len Moskowitz
moskowit@panix.com

------------------------------
 
From: mike@banana.dis.fedex.com (Mike Bearden)
Subject: FOR SALE: Interconnects
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 15:28:06 GMT

     FOR SALE:

     1 Meter Audioquest Lapis Interconnect          -  $150
      - Copper version
      - Shipping included via next day air cod

     6 Meter Purist Audio Maxumus Interconnect      -  $485
      - New $1170
      - Shipping Included - via second day air cod
     
     Mike Bearden
     Memphis, TN
     (901)797-6350 work/days
     (901)756-8517 home/nights

     or email.

------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 93 09:10:02 PDT
From: goldberg@ide.com
Subject: The Future of Turntables (and LPs)

Simon David writes;
>"In a few years will we only have the choice of something cheap 'n cheerful
 from the lo-end or a mega expensive chunk of state of the art, overkill
engineering?"  

I suspect it's even worse than that.  In a very short time you will *only*
be able to find the mega expensive chunk of state-of-the-art, (god, I hate that
phrase) overkill engineering.  The companies that make cheap and (not so) 
cheerful equipment live on volume, and there's no volume in turntables anymore. The list of current turntable manufacturers that Ray Chowkwanyn posted confirms this; the only "mass market" manufacturer left is Denon.  Used turntables will 
be the only choice for most people who still want to play LPs.  Get 'em while 
you can!

As for LPs, someone posted a notice recently that MoFi is getting back into the
LP pressing business.  Several people on the Analog Addicts mailing list have
asked for confirmation of this.  I called MoFi and they did confirm that they
were thinking about this.  But I don't think it's because of any altruistic
impluse.  The prices of good used LPs have begun to rise lately (at least in the
SF Bay Area), and the prices for used Audiophile LPs have, in some cases, gone 
completely through the roof, so I suspect that MoFi will be pricing their LP 
product at CD levels.  The era of cheap software is over too.  

Bruce
goldberg@ide.com

------------------------------
 
From: soatj@alf.uib.no (Thor Oivind Jensen)
Subject: Re: Q: Electrocompaniet Preampliwire I
Date: Wed Aug 11 16:29:46 1993

Old Electrocompaniet preamps is fed by 31V AC usually supplied by a separate 
winding on the transformer in their power amp. A 3-pin DIN connection moved 
the current. Usually they were sold as a set. The power amp was rather 
famous and still is, the preamp was more of a simple solution for driving 
the power stage. It has less than 10 Ohm impedance out which is a nice 
feature. Not a bad preamp, but not world class either. y

In later years Electrocompaniet has made well-reputaded preamps with their 
own power supply.

The history of the company is very interesting and they are an important 
part of amplifier development in the late 1970's and still make rather good-
sounding products.
Thor Oivind Jensen
Dep. of Administration and Organization
Christiesgt 17
N-5007 BERGEN, NORWAY
fax: ++ 47 5 32 12 89
phone + 47 5 21 21 53

------------------------------
 
Date: 11 Aug 93 12:43:09 EDT
From: "James A. Cobbs" <JAC%WRLCVM.BITNET@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU>
Subject: You make the call....

    In the August _Sterophile_ they reported on the Consumer Electronics
Show (CES) in Chicago.  Seems they set up three 'high end' demo rooms:
one 'Entry', one 'Affordable High End' and, natch, one 'Cost-No-Object.'
Since I've not finished my mail order bank robbing course yet, the
'ultimate' system configuration was of no particular interest.

    However the other two I did find of interest.  Obviously the boys
from _Sterophile_ had to borrow the stuff (hopefully from willing lenders)
and they admit that 'politics' (read advertisers) entered into the equation.
What they had was:

                "Entry"                       "Affordable"
CD player       Rotel '965BX                 Sonographe SD22
Preamp          PS Audio 6.1                 Sonic Frontiers SFL-1
Amp             B&K ST-202                   McCormack DNA-1
Speakers        Definitive Techn DR-7        Vandersteen 2Ce
Cables          Unspecificed Audioquest      Unspecified Kimber

Approx Cost:       $2,600                        $7,000

     Now comes the FUN (no flames please):  what would you change on
a quid pro quo basis ie. no big changes in the total system cost.
Part 2:  what do you think of the given configurations.

   _   /|               Jim Cobbs
   ""O_o''  Oop,        Washington Research Library Consortium
    -( )=   Ack|        4207 Forbes Blvd., Lanham MD 20706
      U                 Tel: (301) 731-1000 x419  Fax: (301) 731-1012
I tweak, therefore I am.

------------------------------
 
From: cgc@cupido.inesc.pt (Carlos Goncalves Carvalho)
Subject: Re: Thiel 2.2 and ML Aerius
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 16:46:09 GMT

infmx!neilw@uunet.UU.NET (Neil Williams) writes:
: Has anyone heard these two side-by-side?  My wife and I recently
: auditioned them; she preferred the Aerius, I preferred the Thiel,
: so we're now in a quandry.
: 
Hi.

I've gone through a similar problem.
There are two main things to look out for:
- How will your Adcom interact with the speakers?
- How will your room interact with speakers?

When I heard the Martin Logans at the store I only thought that they
were just a little bit bright.

When I listened to them at home, to my surprise they became unbearably
bright with some types of music... (with the same amp, pre-amp and
cd-player).

This was probably due to my room being rather small, but I eventually
bought the Thiel 1.2 which are much easier on the ears. (The Thiel 2.2
were too expensive although better ...)

What I advise you to do is therefore to try to listen to them in your
home with your amplifier (before buying them...) and if you can't talk
your dealer into that, at least take your Adcom to the store to see how
it manages both the Thiels and the MLs.

That way you might avoid an unpleasant surprise...

Bye,

Carlos

-------------------
Carlos Carvalho
cgc@inesc.pt

------------------------------
 
From: roth@spr.lerc.nasa.gov (DON ROTH)
Subject: Grounding situation regarding my interesting experience
Date: 11 Aug 1993 13:03 EST

	I've gotten several interesting replies regarding my situation of still
hearing sound through my speakers after turning all equipment off.  Most say
that it was likely that my grounding situation was the problem with James Cobb
telling me I'm lucky to still be alive.  But aren't a lot of folks in my
situation: old home, 2-prong (ungrounded) wall outlets, amp with 3-prong
(including ground pin) power cable plugged into 3 prong outlet surge 
protectors, using 2-prong cheater plug at end of surge protector or amp cable
to connect to wall outlet?  How would the
following situations differ:  2-prong cheater plug on surge protector power
cable so that I can plug into 2-prong wall outlet vs. 2-prong cheater plug on
power amp power cord plugged into surge protector with surge protector power
cable also having 2-prong cheater plug to connect into 2-prong wall outlet?  In
other words, does connecting the amp to the surge protector with the cheater
plug differ in any way from just using a cheater plug at the end of the surge
protector power cable?

Don

------------------------------
 
From: re2i@midway.uchicago.edu (george albert reisch jr)
Subject: FOR SALE: VTL Compact 100
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1993 18:24:43 GMT

For sale:  VTL compact 100 tube amps

-100 watts per side (4 EL34's each)
-excellent condition (with packing)
-black with stainless steel top
-very neutral, open sound
-2 sets of jacks for bi-wiring
-5 yrs old, with original receipts
-VTL's lifetime tranferrable warranty
-See stereophile review v. 11 no. 2 (class 
"B")

Reason for selling:  I'm converting
my main system to transistors and have
a rebuilt pair of Dyna III's to satisfy my
(occasional) craving for tubes.

Terms: $1200 and would prefer selling to
someone in the Chicago area.

contact George:
312-667-8189
re2i@midway.uchicago.edu

------------------------------
 
From: creatch@ohm.ee.washington.edu ( Lars Gilstrom 9110447)
Subject: Pas3 Schematics wanted
Date: 11 Aug 1993 18:40:26 GMT

I've just bought a Dynaco PAS3 and would like to get a copy of
the schematics so I can so some bypassing and mods.  Can anyone help?

Lars

------------------------------
 
From: perkinsw@mayo.edu (Bill Perkins)
Subject: Where can I get Fried speakers?
Date: 11 Aug 1993 18:54:00 GMT

A friend of mine has a pair of early Fried speakers (IMF 2's), which 
iconoclastically use transmission line technology and are a wonder to listen 
to. I have tried for two years to locate a distributor that sells Fried 
speakers. I recently found an old brochure from Fried Products Co. in 
Philadelphia, called directory assistance and found that there is no company 
by that name. I am at a loss as to where I can pick up a pair of R/4 Fried 
speakers. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. Please no puns about 
frying or fried speakers.

Thank you for your response.


------------------------------
                                        
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