BAB009.TXT  
--- 
Date:    Sun, 13 Dec 1992 23:15:21 -0800 (PST) 
From: VAMGT053@vax.csun.edu (BRETT JAFFEE (BJAFFEE)) 
Message-Id: <921213231521.6e33@VAX.CSUN.EDU> 
Subject: Hour-25 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
X-Vmsmail-To: MX%"b5@iastate.edu" 
 
Maany of you probably know that JMS hosted a show called "Hour-25".  Some of 
you may be wondering what it is. 
 
Hour-25 is a radio show which airs at 10:00pm Fridays on 90.7 FM.  It is 
broadcast throughout Southern and Central California.  Its prime topic 
is SF, though it will often go into sveral other genres such as fantasy 
and horror.  The hosts rotate so that when JMS was on the show, he would 
only host about once a month.  At that time there were, I believe,  four 
sets of hosts/cohosts.   
 
When JMS was on he would talk about SF books, TV and movies.  Occasionally 
he would make cryptic remarks regarding some new show he was doing (I think 
it was Babylon 2, or something like that). Actually he did entire show 
about B5 with Ron Thorton.  I wish I had taped it, but I was pretty  
unfamiliar with the show back then.  There is a guy who tapes all the shows. 
Anyone interested can hear his address in the first half hour of the show. 
--- 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 00:12:46 -0500 
From: cq401@cleveland.freenet.edu (Robert C. Ritter) 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Subject: re:Mike okuda on B5 
Reply-To: cq401@cleveland.freenet.edu (Robert C. Ritter) 
 
I think there is a VERY GOOD reason for not filing suit AT THIS 
TIME.  A lawsuit at this time would tie up production on B5 as 
well as DS9, and JMS wants to get his show on the air.  
  
DS9 has also taken the tag line for B5 about the Final Frontier 
and started using it as well.  
  
If my memory is correct, the judge threw out the phony  
accounting practices and Paramount WILL have to pay AB & Co. 
  
I hope both shows are great, but my feelings are TNG & DS9 
will both be suffering.   
  
This IS the year of SF on television, with TNG, DS9, B5,  
TIME TRAX, DOORWAYS ALL IN PRODUCTION and several other  
pilots on the way.   
-- 
Rob Ritter 
---  
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1992 01:26:09 -0500 
From: "Ivan A. Gonzales" <wombat@eng.umd.edu> 
Message-Id: <199212140626.AA06879@pepsi.eng.umd.edu> 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Subject: Re: Mike Okuda on B5 
 
Rob Ritter writes:  
 
>  
> I think there is a VERY GOOD reason for not filing suit AT THIS 
> TIME.  A lawsuit at this time would tie up production on B5 as 
> well as DS9, and JMS wants to get his show on the air.  
 
I don't see why this would tie up either.  TV shows have lawsuits 
filed against them on occasion.  Production doesn't stop.  Nope.  If 
JMS is unwilling to try and prove his accusations in court, they 
mean *nothing*.  JMS is libeling two talented and repected creators/ 
producers, Michael Piller and Rick Berman, on what so far no one has  
shown me any real evidence is anything more than coincidence.  I'm sure 
JMS believes (at least I hope so) that DS9 took ideas from his creation. 
Fine, stop talking about it, and *do* something.  Until, then, it's 
impossible to confirm his allegations or for me to accept them.  I have  
little respect for someone who makes serious accusations and lets them 
sit.  Sorry.  It's great PR, though, I'll give him that.  
 
> DS9 has also taken the tag line for B5 about the Final Frontier 
> and started using it as well.  
 
Wouldn't that be the other way around?  B5 took Star Trek's tag line 
and starting using it to promote their show.  Nothing wrong with that, 
but you can't expect Paramount to promote a new Star Trek show *without* 
using "The Final Frontier," a phrase instantly recongnizable by the most 
of the population with Star Trek?  I don't think so. 
 
>   
> I hope both shows are great, but my feelings are TNG & DS9 
> will both be suffering.   
 
I can't speak for DS9 (haven't seen it yet (-:), but it's going to be 
pretty hard for either DS9 or B5 to achieve the quality of the top 
TNG episodes.  (Including the recent and excellent "Chain of Command Part 
I," and what looks like an incredibly intense part II.)  Both DS9 and 
B5 have a tough act to follow in TNG. 
 
 
> This IS the year of SF on television, with TNG, DS9, B5,  
> TIME TRAX, DOORWAYS ALL IN PRODUCTION and several other  
> pilots on the way.   
 
Here's hoping it's *good* SF, not just SF.   
 
Jose Gonzalez 
--- 
Date: 14 Dec 92 15:24:27 EST 
From: Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu> 
Subject: B5 and DS9 (was Re:Mike Okuda on Hour-25) 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.921214152427.541@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu> 
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1c R5. 
 
> JMS is unwilling to try and prove his accusations in court, they 
> mean *nothing*.  JMS is libeling two talented and repected creators/ 
> producers, Michael Piller and Rick Berman, on what so far no one has 
> shown me any real evidence is anything more than coincidence.  I'm sure 
> JMS believes (at least I hope so) that DS9 took ideas from his creation. 
> Fine, stop talking about it, and *do* something.  Until, then, it's 
> impossible to confirm his allegations or for me to accept them.  I have 
> little respect for someone who makes serious accusations and lets them 
> sit.  Sorry.  It's great PR, though, I'll give him that. 
> 
    Have you actually read JMS's posts on the topic?  He has _NOT_ 
accused either Piller or Berman of stealing from his show.  They in 
all probability did not ever see his concept and treatment - that was 
shown to higher ups at Paramount.  Also, he has stated that he has 
the highest respect for both Piller and Berman, and doesn't think 
they would ever do such a thing.  So _he_ has not in any way libeled 
them, for he has not accused them.  Some people on the net have made 
such accusations, but of course, there is no such evidence.  I tend 
to agree with JMS, myself, in that Piller and Berman did not copy any 
conceptual stuff from B5. 
    However, it has been suggested that someone else at Paramount who 
did see his proposal had some influence on the way DS9 developed, and 
either consciously or unconsciously copied ideas from one to the 
other.  JMS has not ruled this out, nor has he made such an 
accusation.  The closest thing to one that he has ever made, to the 
best of my knowledge, is wondering out loud if "such things can be 
coincidence."  Personally, I tend to think that this may likely be 
the case. 
    Anyway, I'm sure that JMS and others are actively looking into 
the matter, but in such cases, evidence is rather hard to come by. 
At this point, there's really not much I've heard of to base a court 
case on.  So such allegations remain pure speculation, and probably 
will remain as such in perpetuity.  We can speculate all we want. 
But don't unjustly accuse JMS of libel, and don't accuse someone of 
just sitting on their ass, just because you don't _see_ them doing 
anything.  And I hardly think he's bringing this up for PR purposes - 
check out his posts to Genie on the topic from September.  They ought 
to clear up several of these "misconceptions." (at least that's how I 
read the previous post) 
    Hope this all made coherant sense. 
--- 
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com 
Date: 14 Dec 92 23:26:55 GMT 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Subject: Re: Mike Okuda, Rick S. & B5 vs DS9 
Message-Id: <0003AB6E.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe> 
 
One of the problems with making comparisons of the two shows and some of the 
similarities is that some of them are logical things for a large space station 
with many different alien cultures.  However, on the other hand, if they do 
have a bathroom scene in ST:Ds9 similar to the one Joe has described at cons 
(warning lights and sirens, etc.) then we can be sure that one was ripped off. 
I know that Rick Sternbach watched Joe's presentation on B5 at WesterColt back 
in July. From having seen the ST:Ds9 electronic press kit, there doesn't seem 
to be much similarities in the main characters. My main concern in getting the 
word out on B5 is that the uninformed don't see it as a ripoff of ST:Ds9. 
--- 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 16:24:46 -0800 
Message-Id: <9212150024.AA09462@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com> 
From: chris@univrs.decnet.lockheed.com 
To: "b5@iastate.edu"@eagle.decnet.lockheed.com 
Cc: CHRIS@eagle.is.lmsc.lockheed.com 
Subject: DS9 copying B5, or vice versa 
 
I think I heard (can't prove this) that a while back, Majel Barrett-Roddenberry 
had made some comments in the other direction, saying that -B5- was awfully 
similar to -DS9-.  This is rather silly given that B5 was pitched to Paramount 
long before the DS9 concept was developed.  Does anybody know the details?  I 
haven't heard any similar comments from her or the ST people since that 
long-ago faint recollection, so if she -did- make comments like that she may 
have since realized how foolish it was. 
 
I was just sort of chuckling about this after reading all this heated 
discussion about JMS suing (or not) the DS9 people etc ... I do think this 
is one of the areas where we need to be careful to keep our facts straight. 
 
Cheers, 
  -Chris 
--- 
Subject: DSN and Babylon Five 
To: b5@iastate.edu (Babylon Five Mailing List) 
Date: Mon, 14 Dec 92 20:39:53 PST 
From: Mark Holtz <mholtz@sactoh0.sac.ca.us> 
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL5] 
Message-Id: <9212142039.AA27235@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US> 
 
Look, I'm sure that that are similarities between Babylon Five and 
Trek's Deep Space Nine. But, can we drop the thread of possible 
legal action between the two series, and let each series be judged 
by what appears on the screen. I am looking forward to both series, 
and will be making a "List of Lists" of Babylon Five when 
(IhopeIhoopeIhope) it becomes a series this fall. 
--  
The Keeper Of: * The Simpson's Episode Guide 
	       * Star Trek TOS/TAS, TMS, TNG, DSN List of Lists 
	       * Quantum Leap List of Lists 
--- 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 00:03:24 -0500 
From: "Ivan A. Gonzales" <wombat@eng.umd.edu> 
Message-Id: <199212150503.AA12317@coke.eng.umd.edu> 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Subject: Re: B5 and DS9 
 
Matt Schmitt writes: 
  
>     Have you actually read JMS's posts on the topic?  He has _NOT_ 
> accused either Piller or Berman of stealing from his show. 
 
I've read the ones posted here.  Everything else I got from letters on 
this list and from the net.  I'm happy to hear that some of what I 
read or inferred may be in error. 
 
> They in 
> all probability did not ever see his concept and treatment - that was 
> shown to higher ups at Paramount.  Also, he has stated that he has 
> the highest respect for both Piller and Berman, and doesn't think 
> they would ever do such a thing.  So _he_ has not in any way libeled 
> them, for he has not accused them. 
 
Ok, this is my mistake then, and I apologize for *my* accusations.   
 
> Some people on the net have made 
> such accusations, but of course, there is no such evidence.  I tend 
> to agree with JMS, myself, in that Piller and Berman did not copy any 
> conceptual stuff from B5. 
 
Perhaps then, some people who are more in the know than myself can post 
repsonses to such accusations when they appear on the net.  This is how 
really nasty rumors get started and people start blending them with fact 
and JMS's views.   
 
>     However, it has been suggested that someone else at Paramount who 
> did see his proposal had some influence on the way DS9 developed, and 
> either consciously or unconsciously copied ideas from one to the 
> other.  JMS has not ruled this out, nor has he made such an 
> accusation.  The closest thing to one that he has ever made, to the 
> best of my knowledge, is wondering out loud if "such things can be 
> coincidence."  Personally, I tend to think that this may likely be 
> the case. 
 
Hmmmmm.....He's not blaming Piller or Berman of anything *directly*, 
but if they let themselves be influenced by this unnamed Paramount 
bad guy, I don't think anyone would argue they were guilty of at 
least borrowing some ideas.   
 
>     Anyway, I'm sure that JMS and others are actively looking into 
> the matter, but in such cases, evidence is rather hard to come by. 
> At this point, there's really not much I've heard of to base a court 
> case on.  So such allegations remain pure speculation, and probably 
> will remain as such in perpetuity.  We can speculate all we want. 
> But don't unjustly accuse JMS of libel, and don't accuse someone of 
> just sitting on their ass, just because you don't _see_ them doing 
> anything.  And I hardly think he's bringing this up for PR purposes - 
> check out his posts to Genie on the topic from September.  They ought 
> to clear up several of these "misconceptions." (at least that's how I 
> read the previous post) 
>     Hope this all made coherant sense. 
 
Yep.  I'd be happy to drop the whole thing, and I hope all this nonsense 
dies down eventually, but it's just bothersome to see all these "DS9 is 
a rip-off of B5" posts when no real evidence has been presented.  I think 
it hurts both shows. 
 
Jose Gonzalez 
--- 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 09:40:29 -0500 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
From: duga@pacvax.pacersoft.com 
Subject: Cinefantastique article... 
 
I was just reading the B5 article in Cinefantastique and noticed a caption 
on one of the pictures that read something like: 
 
Cmdr. Sinclair and ??? examine a mysterious breach in the hull with a 
tricorder. 
 
Isn't "tricorder" a Trek term? Is this just Cinefantastiques name, or is it 
the shows name for the device? 
 
There's also a typo in one of the realistic adds they show for "resistered 
telepaths".  
 
Can't wait till this thing airs. Looks good...  
 
--Brady 
--- 
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com 
Date: 15 Dec 92 15:12:06 GMT 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Subject: Cinefantastique article... 
Message-Id: <0003ACA8.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe> 
 
The "tricorder" reference is the fault of the person who wrote the captions 
for the pictures. They definitely should have utilized a spelling checker on 
the text, they even spelled Straczynski's name wrong in a few places (which 
isn't that hard to misspell, but in a magazine article about his show, they 
should have made sure they spelled his name right. 
 --- 
Date: 15 Dec 92 13:57:43 EST 
From: Matt Schmitt <MS@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu> 
Subject: Re: Mike Okuda, Rick S. & B5 vs DS9 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Message-Id: <MAILQUEUE-99.921215135744.589@pacnet.pac.wesleyan.edu> 
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v2.1c R5. 
 
> to be much similarities in the main characters. My main concern in getting the 
> word out on B5 is that the uninformed don't see it as a ripoff of ST:Ds9. 
> 
    Here here!  I agree - that's what we should be most concerned 
about.  Not whether or not any "ripping off" is going on, since it'd 
be almost impossible to prove anyway, but making sure that people 
don't see B5 as a quick imitation of DS9, which it most certainly is 
not. 
    Thanks for (hopefully) getting us back on track, Lee. 
--- 
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 92 14:25:18 MST 
From: jacque@niwot.scd.ucar.edu (Jacque Marshall) 
Message-Id: <9212152125.AA15992@niwot.scd.ucar.EDU> 
Received: by niwot.scd.ucar.EDU (5.65/ NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 
	id AA15992; Tue, 15 Dec 92 14:25:18 MST 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Subject: an inspiration! 
Cc: jacque@ncar.ucar.edu 
 
 
In response to various comments about writing Warner and our 
local stations after the pilot airs, it occured to me: 
 
We're having a launching party for the pilot, and I plan 
on bringing a box containing: 
  envelopes 
  paper 
  pens 
  stamps 
  addresses 
 
so we can catch people while they're all fired up, and 
make it as easy as possible for them to write in. 
 
Apropos of which, does anybody know the address for 
Warner? Also, is there a specific human we should be 
addressing these letters to? (This might be a question 
for somebody with GEnie access to pass on to JMS.) 
 
--jm 
--- 
From: Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com 
Date: 18 Dec 92 17:06:18 GMT 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Subject: Writing campaing and such. 
Message-Id: <0003BF09.MAI*/G=LEE/S=WHITESIDE-P14942/PRMD=AZDA/ADMD=MOT/C=US/@ilbe> 
 
In the question of writing to local stations and Warner Bros., that question 
pops up on GEnie and Joe has said that he will post some addresses (and maybe 
a FAX number or two) shortly before the B5 movie.  He agreed with a suggestion 
about contacting your local station, letting them know that you are looking 
forward to the show (and the other PTEN shows). 
  
Not much other news on GEnie of late.  Main bits of info have been that the 
music has been composed and is being (or has been) recorded and they plan to 
do final editing the first week in January and have the movie comleted on 
January 8th. 
  
I did check with my local station here in Phoenix and their air date for the 
B5 movie is Thursday, February 25th (the regular weekly PTEN shows will air 
on Wednesdays here). 
  
Joe is scheduled to appear at Gallifrey One Goes Forth the weekend of February 
26-28th in Burbank, CA, which will be right after the movie airs.  Here's 
the details on Gallifrey One: 
  
Gallifrey One Goes Forth  Feb 26-28, 1993, 
Burbank Airport Hilton, Burbank, CA.  Confirmed Guests 
include Nicola Bryant, John Levene, J.M. Dillard, J. Michael Straczynski, 
David Gerrold, John Vornholt and Larry Stewart. Peter Davison is tentative, 
schedule permitting. Other Doctor Who, Babylon 5 and Star Trek: Deep Space 
Nine guests to be announced. Memberships: $40 til 2/1/93, $45 at the 
door.  Info:  Gallifrey Conventions, P.O. Box 3021, North Hollywood, CA 91609 
  
  
I have been to the first three Gallifrey Conventions and it has always been 
a nice, small con (around 500 attendees).  It's main focus is Doctor Who, but 
there have always been a good number of L.A. area authors and other 
surprises (last year, they had a panel on the American Red Dwarf pilot as well 
as a presentation by J. Michael Straczynski on Babylon 5.).  They do plan to 
have some of the actors from Babylon 5 and possibly some from Deep Space Nine 
(before Creation prices them out of the fan market). 
 --- 
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 92 08:41:51 MST 
From: dnadams@nyx.cs.du.edu (Dean Adams) 
Message-Id: <9212191541.AA11286@nyx.cs.du.edu> 
X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University 
	of Denver.  The University has neither control over nor 
	responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. 
To: b5@iastate.edu 
Subject: Re: Galifrey 
 
 
Lee_Whiteside-P14942@email.mot.com writes: 
 >they plan to do final editing the first week in January and have the  
 >movie comleted on January 8th. 
Interesting. 
 
 >I did check with my local station here in Phoenix and their air date for the 
 >B5 movie is Thursday, February 25th (the regular weekly PTEN shows will air 
 >on Wednesdays here). 
 
Great.  That is the first solid date I have heard.  Still quite a wait though.  
 
 >Joe is scheduled to appear at Gallifrey One Goes Forth the weekend of  
 >February 26-28th in Burbank, CA, which will be right after the movie airs. 
 >Here's the details on Gallifrey One: 
 >  Memberships: $40 til 2/1/93, $45 at the door.   
 > I have been to the first three Gallifrey Conventions and it has always  
 > been a nice, small con (around 500 attendees).   
 
I've been wanting to get to one, but... 
 
 >They do plan to have some of the actors from Babylon 5 and possibly some  
 >from Deep Space Nine (before Creation prices them out of the fan market). 
 
Speaking of which, $40-45 is a pretty high price.  It doesn't exactly  
encourage one to drive over for the day to check things out... 
At least the last Cretin con I went to (in all it's glory :) was only $8. 
--- 
 
