From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Apr 29 07:21:36 1993
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From: <RICK@SARA.NL>
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Status: OR

);
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To: analogue@MAGNUS.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU
Subject: Re: ringmodulator
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 13:18:03 N
From: Rick Jansen <RICK%SARA.NL@OHSTVMA.ACS.OHIO-STATE.EDU>

In message <m0noVwM-000phUC@axisab.axis.se> you write:

>> Elektor's ringmodulator was published in a separate article, apart from the
>> Formant series. It uses the 1496 'Double balanced modulator' ic. The envelope
>> generator is an extra, and not really related to the ringmodulator. There was
>> simply an opamp left :-) If you get book 2 mind the error in the print.
>> There isn't a lot to say about the circuit really, there are a lot of R's
>> for the biasing of the 1496. Two inputs, one output, and thats it.

> In many synths (the Moog/Realistic MG-1 and ARP Odyssey spring to mind), the
> ring modulator is simply an XOR gate fed with the pulse wave outputs from
> two oscillators. Gives the typical 'bell' harmonics, but the output is of
> course a digitial pulse wave of sorts, so it has a bit of a 'square wave'
> sound. At any rate it's cheaper.
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Call me old-fashioned, but it almost can't be. The Elektor ringmodulator
contains only two ic's, the 1496 and a TL074. Plus a bunch of resistors,
some 30 and a few C's. The 1496 and 074 are both cheap. This really is a
low cost module, by any standard.

Those two oscillators you mention, are they internal to the Ringmodulator
in the Moogs and ARPs? Plus, there is more to a ringmodulator than this.
The fun of a ringmodulator, as far as I now know, is in sine waves, certainly
nothing with a lot of harmonics in it.

-Rick Jansen
--
rick@sara.nl

   She'a module and she's looking good

From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Apr 29 06:35:32 1993
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From: ricard@axis.se (Ricard Wolf)
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To: <RICK@SARA.NL>, <analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Status: OR

>  >Ring modulator
> Elektor's ringmodulator was published in a separate article, apart from the
> Formant series. It uses the 1496 'Double balanced modulator' ic. The envelope
> generator is an extra, and not really related to the ringmodulator. There was
> simply an opamp left :-) If you get book 2 mind the error in the print.
> There isn't a lot to say about the circuit really, there are a lot of R's
> for the biasing of the 1496. Two inputs, one output, and thats it.

In many synths (the Moog/Realistic MG-1 and ARP Odyssey spring to mind), the
ring modulator is simply an XOR gate fed with the pulse wave outputs from
two oscillators. Gives the typical 'bell' harmonics, but the output is of
course a digitial pulse wave of sorts, so it has a bit of a 'square wave' 
sound. At any rate it's cheaper.

/Ricard

-- 
Ricard Wolf                   / | \  / | /-           email: ricard@axis.se
Axis Communications AB       /__|  \/  | \__          uucp:  axisab.se!ricard
S - 223 70 LUND             /   |  /\  |    \         Tel:   +46 46 19 18 63
SWEDEN                     /    | /  \ | \__/         Fax:   +46 46 13 61 30
           -- "There is this killing game - and my head will roll" --

From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Apr 29 05:56:59 1993
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From: Andrea TONI <andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl>
Subject: -- formant and opamp -- 
To: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 12:02:22 MET
Organization:   ESA-ESTEC (European Space Research and Technology Center)
                Keplerlaan 1	2200 AG  Noordwijk (EUROPA)		
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Status: OR

Hi, 
Rick Jansen asks about TL071 in metal case .. 

that the 071 was (or is) available in several standard containers 
FK (Chip carrier)  J and JG (Ceramic dip) L (the metal one) D (small outline)
P (plastic dip) .. it is anyway a revised 79-83-89 data book .. so 
I don't know if this still apply ... the new data book is useless .. 
it has two floppy with all the spice model in but forget about this 
*kind* of detail .. next one that claim that new is better will be shot !!!

For Rick .. maybe you can try Stuut and Bruin in Den Haag (I'm really impress
with this shop .. !) 

And another (expensive !!!) option .. would be the wonderful and extremely 
quiet OP27/37 .. 

For the crazy(and stupid .. I may add !!) esoteric hi-fi guys I can suggest 
the reading of "How clean is your op-amp" from Electronic World + Wireless
Jan 1993 .. where they claim that some distorsion it's audible at levels 
approaching those of themal noise (!!!) .. so they tested a bunch of 
the most famous op-amp (071 and 27 included ) using a distorsion test 
programme that quantifies harmonics down to 140db below the signal (!!) .. 

Hey Rick ... I would love to hear your Formant ..I'm living in 
Oestgeest .. send me a mail ..Tnx .. 

Ciao, 
------------------------------------------------ENV---ENV---ENV----------------
 Andrea TONI (andrea@sihp03.si.estec.esa.nl)     |     |     |
 Planetary and Space                            VCO-->VCF-->VCA--> DUCATI 900SS
 Science Division (SI)                           |     |     |
------------------------------------------------LFO---LFO---LFO----------------

From analogue-request@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu Thu Apr 29 05:15:47 1993
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To: till@LUCID.COM
Cc: analogue@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu, Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 29 Apr 93 00:00:17 PDT."
             <9304290700.AA19543@acid-rain.lucid.com> 
Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 05:14:43 -0400
Message-Id: <27628.736074883@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU>
From: Yoshiaki_Ohshima@SPEECH1.CS.CMU.EDU
Status: OR


the original point being that 071 is mediocre by today's standard, and 
i might avoid using it at least for the main audio signal path.
if 071 drastically improves it, shouldn't 1022 do it super drastically?
just wondering...
						--aki

