Subject: R.E.M. and rec.music.rem FAQ (3/3)
Supersedes: <rgh3-0506951711540001@128.253.70.90>
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 1995 17:16:00 -0400
References: <rgh3-0807951705040001@128.253.70.90>
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Posting-frequency: monthly
Last modified: July 7, 1995

------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Continued from Part 2/3]

======================================================================
Part 5.

                Those Evil "Favorite Song" Posts....

Poll-type threads come up every so often, mostly initiated by new
subscribers who want instant feedback on their own opinions about albums
and songs.  Before asking a general question like:

o "What's everyone's favorite song/album?"

  PLEASE be aware that asking everyone on the group to post what their
  favorite song, or album, or favorite five songs, or favorite two albums,
  or favorite combination of video and song, or favorite song R.E.M. has
  covered, etc., etc., is considered poor netiquette.  Hundreds to
  thousands of people read this newsgroup every day, and we don't want a
  post from each and every one of them!  Besides the fact that the posts
  will get incredibly boring after about the tenth respondent, no one can
  remember what everyone has said, and in the end it's rather pointless.
  If for some reason you just HAVE to know what the entire group's
  consensus is on something, be a good net-citizen and please ask people
  to email to YOU all responses, and then YOU compile the results into
  a single, neat informational post that will actually mean something to
  everyone.

For example:

Eric Misiano recently posted the following poll results from responses he
received from a post asking for favorite song and album.

   BEST SONG (Top 20)
   RANK    TITLE                      TOTAL
   ----------------------------------------------
   1.      Find the River              317
   2.      Nightswimming               270
   3.      I Believe                   267
   4.      Losing My Religion          243
   5.      So. Central Rain            212
   6.      Country Feedback            187
   7.      It's the End of the World   185
   8.      Perfect Circle              172
   9.      Fall on Me                  162
           World Leader Pretend        162
   11.     These Days                  125
   12.     Driver 8                    114
   13.     Radio Free Europe           107
   14.     Man on the Moon              95
   15.     Half a World Away            82
           You Are the Everything       82
   17.     Low                          80
           Swan Swan H                  80
   19.     The One I Love               79
   20.     Life & How to Live It        75
           Orange Crush                 75
           Wolves, Lower                75
   -----------------------------------------------
 
 
   BEST ALBUM
   RANK    TITLE                          TOTAL
   ------------------------------------------------
   1.      Lifes Rich Pageant              825
   2.      Automatic For the People        754
   3.      Fables of the Reconstruction    356
   4.      Murmur                          387
   5.      Document                        423
   6.      Out of Time                     683
   7.      Reckoning                       329
   8.      Monster                         196
   9.      Green                           398
   10.     Chronic Town                    200
   11.     Dead Letter Office               49
   -------------------------------------------------
 
   BEST SONG ON ALBUM (Top 3 of each)
   CHRONIC TOWN                            MURMUR
   ============                            ======
   Song                    Votes           Song                    Votes
   -----------------------------           -----------------------------
   Carnival of Sorts                       Radio Free Europe       9
     (Box Cars)            5               Perfect Circle          8
   Gardening at Night      4               Talk About the Passion  4
   Stumble                 2               -----------------------------
   -----------------------------
 
   RECKONING                               FABLES OF THE RECONSTRUCTION
   =========                               ============================
   Song                    Votes           Song                    Votes
   -----------------------------           -----------------------------
   So. Central Rain        7               Driver 8                9
   Pretty Persuasion       5               Wendell Gee             4
   Harborcoat              4               Life and How to Live It 3
   -----------------------------           -----------------------------
 
   LIFES RICH PAGEANT                      DEAD LETTER OFFICE
   ==================                      ==================
   Song                    Votes           Songs                   Votes
   -----------------------------           -----------------------------
   I Believe               9               Bandwagon               4
   Fall on Me              6               Voice of Harold         3
   Swan Swan H             5               Pale Blue Eyes          3
   -----------------------------           -----------------------------
 
   DOCUMENT                                GREEN
   ========                                =====
   Song                    Votes           Song                    Votes
   -----------------------------           -----------------------------
   Its the End of the World 10             Orange Crush            8
   King of Birds            6              World Leader Pretend    6
   Disturbance at the                      Turn You Inside-Out     5
     Heron House            5              -----------------------------
   -----------------------------
 
   OUT OF TIME                             AUTOMATIC FOR THE PEOPLE
   ===========                             ========================
   Song                    Votes           Song                    Votes
   -----------------------------           -----------------------------
   Losing My Religion      12              Find the River          13
   Country Feedback        8               Nightswimming           7
   Belong                  5               Man on the Moon         4
   -----------------------------           -----------------------------
 
   MONSTER
   =======
   Song                            Votes
   -------------------------------------
   What's the Frequency, Kenneth?  5
   Crush With Eyeliner             5
   Circus Envy                     4
   Let Me In                       4
   Strange Currencies              4
   Star 69                         4
   -------------------------------------

If you have any questions about this poll, please contact Eric directly
via email at emisiano@diamond.tufts.edu.


========================================================================
Part 6.

Where To Get More Information about R.E.M. (Books)

Several books have been published about R.E.M.  Among them are:

  REMnants - The R.E.M. Collector's Handbook and Price Guide,
  by Gary Nabors.  A list of over 1200 collectible R.E.M. items
  fully described and valued, plus a 29 page interview with Peter.
  A must for the die-hard R.E.M. collector.  (Eclipse Publishers,
  261 pages, ISBN 0963624148.)

  It Crawled From The South: An R.E.M. Companion, by Marcus Gray
  This is THE book for the hardcore fan.  Some might even go so far
  as to say to read this *and* REMnants cover to cover before posting to
  rec.music.rem!  This book is considerably more in-depth than
  REMarks.  And no, it doesn't have an index, though discussion
  surfaces occasionally among fans on creating one. (DaCapo Books,
  1993, ISBN 0306805006.)

  REMarks:  The Story of R.E.M., by Tony Fletcher.  Second ed. of
  the first bio to appear.  A pretty complete compilation of all
  the well-known info about the band, with lots of pretty pictures.
  Probably the best bio for the casual fan. (London : Omnibus, 1993.
  159 p.  ISBN 0711932212 (pbk), 0711932212 (cloth).)

  R.E.M.: Behind the Mask, by Jim Greer.  A pretty hardcover coffee
  table book written by a writer from SPIN.  The author pretty
  much re-wrote REMarks, replacing fact with his own opinions.
  (Little Brown, 1992, ISBN 0316327301.)

  Party Out Of Bounds, by Rodger Lyle Brown.  A book about the early
  (and mostly pre-REM) Athens music scene.  Marcus Gray (author
  of It Crawled From the South) called it "entertaining", though the
  few who have taken time to read it don't speak as highly of it.
  (Out of Print as of this writing anyway.)

  R.E.M. File Under Water, by John Story.
  An update of "A Few Chords and A Cloud of Dust", a complete
  discography, bootleg list, etc published a while back by Total
  Recall Productions.  (Imaginary Books, ISBN 1-897787-00-6)

  Talk About the Passion, by Denise Sullivan. Interviews with
  various folks about the band over the years.  (Charles F. Miller
  Books, 1994, ISBN 0-88733-184-X.)

  REM: The "Rolling Stone" Files: The Ultimate Compendium of Interviews,
  Articles, Facts & Opinions from the Files "Rolling Stone". (Hyperion/
  Little Brown, 1995, 320p., ISBN 0786880546, $14.95 retail price)

======================================================================
Part 7.

R.E.M. On Video

All but four pre-A4TP videos are available on five full-length video
releases.  These are:

     R.E.M. Succumbs (Murmur through Lifes Rich Pageant)
     Pop Screen (Document and Green)
     Tourfilm (Green World Tour)
     This Film is On (Out Of Time)
     Parallel (Automatic for the People and Monster) [released 5/30/95]

All these videocassetes/videodiscs are in print and can probably be
found in your local hip music video emporium even as you read this.

The four videos not on these compilations are "Wolves, Lower" (rarely
seen, though MTV has a copy of it), "(All I've Got To Do Is) Dream"
and "Swan Swan H" from the "Athens, Ga - Inside/Out" soundtrack (all
scenes from the film, which is available on video), and the MTV version
of "Radio Free Europe" (music is the same, but this version of the
clip contains snippets of live footage interspersed with the regular
video.  More marketable, you know.)

Other R.E.M. related videotapes are: the previously-mentioned
_Athens, GA - Inside/Out_ documentary on the Athens, GA music scene,
and _Arena Brains_ a short film by Robert Longo featuring Michael
Stipe's acting debut (!).

========================================================================
Part 8.

                 Resources Available On the Internet

1. Listed by Access Method:

  Usenet
        - What rec.music.rem is on.  Other newsgroups that might be of
    interest to r.m.r regulars include: alt.music.alternative (very
    busy group, be forewarned!); alt.music.alternative.female (for all
    the R.E.M. fans also fans of Indigo Girls and 10,000 Maniacs'
    Natalie Merchant); alt.guitar.tab or rec.music.makers.* (several
    groups where you might find R.E.M.'s music worked out by others).

        - Non-rec.music.rem Usenet resources.  Brian Edmonds' 
    "ALT.MUSIC GROUP" posting describes how to find Usenet groups and 
    mailing lists for other musical groups. To get his list of newsgroup 
    "alt" group names and descriptions:
       o http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/edmonds/usenet/alt-music.html
       o send email to majordomo@edmonds.home.cs.ubc.ca with the single
         line "get faq alt-music.txt" in the body of the message
    He also describes how to obtain a copy of the latest version of Myra
    Wong's List of Music Mailing Lists. Send email to <majordomo@
    edmonds.home.cs.ubc.ca> with the line "get faq lomml.txt" in the
    body of the message, or:
       o finger ayukawa@server.berkeley.edu
       o ftp://server.berkeley.edu/pub/misc/lomml
       o http://server.berkeley.edu/~ayukawa/lomml.html
    Indiana University also maintains a searchable archive of over 9000
    mailing lists.  It is accessible on the web at:
       o http://scwww.ucs.indiana.edu/mlarchive/
    (Excerpted from: The alt.music Group List.)

  Email mailing list (reflector or digest)

    With the demise of the MURMUR list, there currently exists no
    email forum to which you can subscribe.  The previous mailing
    list organizer may be able to provide a list of former sub-
    scribers to Murmur should someone really be interested in picking
    the job up.

  WWW
        - R.E.M. Home Page <http://www.halcyon.com/rem/index.html>
    Use a World Wide Web browser (Netscape, Mosaic, Lynx, etc.) to
    access this site. Includes a wondrous assortment of R.E.M.
    materials and hypertext links to other resources.  One can also
    access the halcyon.com FTP site through this WWW page. Maintained
    by Simone Jarzabek (jarzabek@halcyon.com).
 
        - Some other WWW sites are:
     <http://www.iuma.com/Warner/R.E.M..html>  (Record label's _Monster_
          promotional site.)
     <http://comp.uark.edu/~cbray/rem/rem.html> (Chords and tabs.)
 |   <http://www.gtlug.org/~dgoodman/rem.html> (.gifs and lyrics.)
     <http://adms10.fnal.gov:8001/~zimmm/default.html>  (Bootleg info.)
     <http://fas-www.harvard.edu/~jsage/remenu.html>  (Concert reviews.)
     <http://www.cs.oberlin.edu:80/students/spostel/remstuff.html> (Boot
          and tapetree info.)
     <http://http2.brunel.ac.uk:8080/~cs94smp/rempage.htm>  (New page in
          U.K reproducing much of the Halcyon info.)
     <http://sashimi.wwa.com/hammers/pictures/rem.htm>  (Pictures from
          the Drive shoot.)
     <http://www.iuma.com/ATN/>   (On-line magazine "Addicted to Noise"
          which had a major article on R.E.M. in issue 1.02 and has
          had a number of other minor articles since.)

  File Server
        - fables@lynchburg.edu
    Send the command "LIST" to "fables@lynchburg.edu" for a list of all
    files, including lyrics, magazine and newspaper articles and more,
    available via E-mail from the fables file server.

  FTP
        - ftp.halcyon.com /local/rem
    Halcyon contains murmur mailing list archives, graphics, and a
    host of other things, via this anonymous FTP server.  Maintained
    by Simone Jarzabek.
        - cs.uwp.edu /pub/music/artists/r/rem
    This big site of popular music lyrics contains a subdirectory of
    R.E.M. lyrics files, as well as a subdirectory of R.E.M. graphics
    files (subdirectory /rem/pictures).  NOTE: this site is notoriously
    difficult to get access to daytimes.  Try off-hours or use one of
    the "mirror" sites (places which automatically copy the archive
    and which are easier to access) listed on the message screen, if
    you are denied access.  One common mirror site is ftp.sunet.se.
        - ftp.nevada.edu /pub/guitar/r/REM
    Similarly to UWP, this site is very difficult to access. It also
    has easier to access mirror sites (usually in Europe) you should
    try if you are denied access.

2. Listed by Particular Item

  Lyrics:

    Kipp Teague <fables-mgr@lynchburg.edu> periodically posts the
    current versions of the group's collaborative lyrics files.
    They can also be obtained via e-mail via the file server
    "fables@lynchburg.edu".  Send the command "LIST" (as the only
    line in the body of the message) to the file server to obtain a
    list of lyrics files and instructions on how to obtain them.

    Lyrics files are also available via anonymous ftp to <cs.uwp.edu
    /pub/music/lyrics/r/rem> (these are updated frequently using
    the files from the fables server) but read the important
    disclaimer above about accessing this archive.  Finally, for
    folks with WWW browsers, the Home Page provides access to the
    most recent versions of the lyrics as well, through the URL
    <http://www.halcyon.com/rem/index.html>.

  The Great Bootleg List:

    Get a copy via anonymous FTP from cs.uwp.edu (or one of its
    mirrors) as described above, or through the R.E.M. WWW Home Page
    site. Beware, it's a BIG file, and the new version which includes
    graphics of each boot's cover is even larger!  The WWW version of
    the bootleg discography is maintained by Jason Zimberloff
    <zimmm@fnalv.fnal.gov>.

    Ask its maintainer, David DeWolfe <sxdjd@orca.alaska.edu> for a
    copy if you don't have ftp access or a WWW browser.

  Chords / Guitar Tablature files:

    Chris Bray has set up his own R.E.M. WWW site for lyrics with
    guitar chords, at <http://comp.uark.edu/~cbray/>.  If you are
    interested in learning how to play R.E.M. songs on the guitar,
    this is the place for you to visit.

    There are also chords to many R.E.M. songs available via anon
    ftp, as mentioned above, from ftp.nevada.edu or its mirrors.
    A compilation of individual files into a single very large file
    is also located at ftp.halcyon.com /local/rem, which can also be
    accessed through the WWW Home Page.

  Discography:

    Via anonymous FTP from cs.uwp.edu in /pub/music/artists/r/rem/discog
    Beware, it's also a BIG file.  Like most other things, also avail-
    able through the R.E.M. WWW Home Page, and via ftp.halcyon.com
    /local/rem/other.  If all else fails, ask the file's maintainer,
    Jim McVey <jmcvey@clark.net> for a copy.

  Pictures (.GIF and .JPEG graphics files)

    Can be found through the R.E.M. WWW Home Page, or by anon FTP at
    cs.uwp.edu:pub/music/artists/r/rem/pictures.

 NOTE:  There may be other REM related files at halcyon.com or
 cs.uwp.edu not mentioned here. There are also new Web sites with links
 to R.E.M. materials cropping up all the time. Scout around!


=========================================================================
Part 9.

                   How To Find An R.E.M. Bootleg

Bootlegged recordings of R.E.M. concerts, and early demo versions of
songs from their albums, are widely available; comparisons have been
made between R.E.M. fandom and Deadheads on the basis of their shared
appetite for live recordings of their respective favorite band.
Remember that these recordings are, strictly speaking, illegal,
and are therefore not available in retail record outlets. So if you
want to get hold of some, here are some ways to go about it:

  1.  Go look in USED record and CD stores.  Some used stores don't deal in
  boots, but many others do.  If you live in or near a big city (they tend
  to be harder to find in small-town used stores), take a field trip and
  dig, dig, dig.  Many older bootlegs are only on vinyl, but there are a lot
  of new ones on CD. Some stores also sell multiple-generation taped copies
  of random shows, which don't sound as good, but are cheaper.

  2.  Go to record shows.  Many dealers will sell recordings of
  questionable legality and origin.  You pay your money and you take
  your chances!

  3.  Mail order.  _Goldmine_ magazine as extensive advertisements from
  people who deal in bootlegs.  You may want to ask other group readers
  about particular dealers before sending off your money, since many of
  them aren't too reliable. From some people's experience, Midnight Records
  (out of NYC) is a legitimate record store that has a very good mail
  order department, as is Minus Zero Records at 2 Blenheim Crescent in
  London. They both are reputed to have great selections selection.

  4.  Trade.  If you see someone talking about a boot they have that
  interests you, ask that person politely if they are willing to trade.
  Some people will send you a copy in exchange for cash to cover postage
  and the cassette, while others will only want to exchange for some
  other recording of something that they want (in which case, if you don't
  have what they're looking for, they won't be interested in trading with
  you).  But this person-to-person trading is probably the best way to
  acquire boots since you're dealing with a private individual instead
  of a store or company of questionable morals.  Make sure you come to a
  solid agreement before you send off tapes or cash!  Many flame wars
  get started over a misunderstanding about terms or time frame for
  getting the recordings done and mailed back (some people will get it
  done in a week, others may take a couple months).

You may find that if offer some bootleg or compilation tape of rare
songs to the entire net, you will be SWAMPED with requests for it.  Be
aware of this, if you don't get a kick out of making dozens and dozens of
copies of a single tape -- remember, many THOUSANDS of people read rec.
music.rem each day.  Sometimes people will offer to make a finite number
of copies for the first N people who reply, or will ask for a particular
type of recording in trade, to reduce the number of responses.

In Summary

Bear in mind that buying bootlegs is usually expensive.  Vinyl boots used
to go for least US $10 per LP disk, and now, in "vintage record" shops, may
cost more than twice that. CD boots run about US $20-30 per disc.  However,
making the investment of buying a good quality CD boot means you can tape
and trade copies of it for other things, and your collection can
therefore grow pretty quickly.

Because the sound quality of bootlegs varies widely, if you are
considering buying or ordering a bootleg, watch the list for discussions
on which ones you want, or ask about the sound quality (it would appear
that most of the common boots are owned by at least a few readers)
before shelling out the cash.  The Great Bootleg Discography (see the
"Net Resources" section of the FAQ for info on how to get this) has
descriptions, ratings, and setlists for just about every bootleg that
has been released on LP and CD.  Boots taken from radio broadcasts
of concerts are usually good quality soundboard recordings, though are
often very widely available under multiple titles -- so be careful you
don't inadvertently duplicate a show you already own.  Audience
recordings, meanwhile, are generally of grab-bag quality and often
aren't really worth the effort unless the sound turned out okay, the
people around the person making the recording kept their mouths shut
(yeah, sure, you wanted a tape of Joe Shmoe's drunk buddy singing along
at the top of his lungs to "Losing My Religion"!) or if the show itself
was particularly significant (like the pre-Murmur shows, most notably
_So Much Younger Then_).


======================================================================
                Finally, A Word About Posting Rumors

Don't expect anyone to believe a rumor you've heard unless you can back
it up with concrete evidence.  "My best friend said so," is NOT enough.
If you hear something that you'd like to try to confirm, please specify 
that it is a rumor and not a fact, and take your chances (in other 
words, you might still get flamed). But bear in mind nearly all gossip 
about a celebrity (especially about Michael Stipe, who in R.E.M. seems
to be the rumor magnet) is only innuendo.  

======================================================================
                        Acknowledgments

This file is certainly not the sole product of the current maintainer,
Ron Henry (rgh3@cornell.edu), but is a long-term collaborative effort
by many diligent and creative folks who respect R.E.M.  Many thanks
to the numerous newsgroup and mailing list members past and present who
have offered information, corrections and criticism to the contents
of this FAQL (you may or may not know who you are! :)  Special thanks
go to Kipp Teague, a long-time maintainer of this document, and to
Valerie Ohm, original list manager at M.I.T. and original author of
much of this text.

Permission is given to quote and reproduce this text provided that
you credit the source ("R.E.M. and rec.music.rem FAQ" with date) and
*do not make any attempt to pass off the text as your own work.*

Further suggestions are always welcome (email to rgh3@cornell.edu).
Keep those virtual cards and letters coming!
=======================================================================
