Subject: Alt.folklore.herbs - medicinal herb FAQ (v.1.19) Part 1/7
Date: 22 Mar 1996 21:10:47 GMT
Summary: Frequently asked questions with answers, a general
 introduction to and a resource list for medicinal herbs.

Posting-Frequency: monthly (on or about 20th)
Version: 1.19

All you ever wanted to know - and ask on a newsgroup - more often than once
a month - about medicinal herbs. A FAQ for alt.folklore.herbs and the
medicinal herblist.

Please do read entry 2.1.19, Golden Seal appeal. Thanks.

==========
FAQ Keeper: Henriette Kress, HeK@hetta.pp.fi.

Contributors so far (listed alphabetically):   ;)
  Aine Maclir <amaclir@unibase.unibase.com>
  Al Czap <alczap@thorne.com>
  Alex Standefer <astandef@seraph1.sewanee.edu>
  amethyst <sfrye@interaccess.com>
  Anita Hales <hales1@ktn.net>
  Christopher Hedley <christopher@gn.apc.org>
  Colette Gardiner <coletteg@efn.org>
  Coyote Osborne <stygianv@shadow.net>
  Dale Kemery <DalePK@aol.com>
  David Powner <David@filtermx.demon.co.uk>
  Dennis McClain-Furmanski <dynasor@infi.net>
  Dorene Petersen <dorenep@EUROPA.COM>
  Duane Weed <drweed@delphi.com>
  Elizabeth Perdomo <ElizPer@aol.com>
  Elizabeth Toews <Elizabeth_Toews@mindlink.bc.ca>
  Eric Yarnell <yarnell@scn.org>
  Eugenia Provence <EProvence@aol.com>
  George M. Carter <george.m.carter@tbr.com>
  Gloria Mercado-Martin <desidia@community.net>
  Howie Brounstein <howieb@teleport.com>
  Jonathan Treasure <jonno@teleport.com>
  Julia Moravcsik <MORAVCSIK@clipr.colorado.edu>
  Kathjokl <kathjokl@aol.com>
  Kay Klier <temporarily without email>
  Kenneth R. Robertson <krrobert@uiuc.edu>
  Kris Gammon <griztotm@pacificrim.net>
  Lawrence London <london@sunsite.unc.edu>
  Lupo LeBoucher <ix@io.com>
  Mark D. Gold <mgold@laraby.tiac.net>
  Michael Moore <hrbmoore@rt66.com>
  Noel Gilmore <ngilmore@gate.net>
  Patricia Harper <HarperP@aol.com>
  Paul Bergner <bergner@teleport.com>
  Paul Iannone <pi@pop.com>
  Penny <Zhomankenh@aol.com>
  Peggy Wilbur <moon2peg@slip.net>
  Peter L. Schuerman <plschuerman@ucdavis.edu>
  P. Mick Richardson <richards@mobot.org>
  Rene Burrough <100735.543@compuserve.com>
  Rob McCaleb <rmccaleb@herbs.org>
  Robert Gault <ab282@detroit.freenet.org>
  Robert Hensley <Hensleys@aol.com>
  Robyn Klein <rklein@sunrise.alpinet.net>
  Ron Rushing <f_rushingrg@ccsvax.sfasu.edu>
  Roy Collins <ac956@osfn.rhilinet.gov>
  Roy Upton <herbs@sensemedia.net>.
  Rusty Taylor <rustytay@orca.esd114.wednet.edu>
  Sharon Rust <ntlor@primenet.com>
  skeevers@netcom.com
  Suzanne E. Sky <sky3trs@INETWORLD.NET>
  Tim Birdsall <tim@thorne.thorne.com>
  Tim Keenan <tkeenan@uoguelph.ca>
  Todd Caldecott <tcaldec@Direct.ca>
  vicki <luna@bbs.tsf.com>
  _urban shaman_ (can be reached over <carras@aol.com>)

==========
CONTENTS

-----
1   Introduction
. 1.1  Wishlist
2   Frequently asked questions and other useful stuff
. 2.1  Single herbs
.   2.1.1  Valeriana
.     2.1.1.1  Valeriana is not derived from Valium
.   2.1.2  Yohimbe
      2.1.2.1  Yohimbe is a MAO inhibitor, yohimbine isn't
.   2.1.3  Absinthe FAQ pointer
.     2.1.3.1  More on Absinthe
.   2.1.4  St. John's Wort (Hypericum) and photosensitivity
.   2.1.5  Ginseng
.   2.1.6  Stevia Leaf - Too Good To Be Legal?
.     2.1.6.1  Changed legal status of Stevia Leaf
.   2.1.7  Poison Ivy / Oak / Sumac
*     2.1.7.1  Impatiens - ADDITION
.   2.1.8  Echinacea - uses
      2.1.8.1  Echinacea - poaching and extinction
.   2.1.9  Feverfew and migraine.
.   2.1.10 Ginkgo
.   2.1.11 Kava kava
.   2.1.12 Pau d'arco
.   2.1.13 Wild yams and contraception
.   2.1.14 Red raspberry and pregnancy
.   2.1.15 Green tea (and caffeine)
.   2.1.16 Comfrey hepatotoxicity
.   2.1.17 Pennyroyal
.   2.1.18 Cat's Claw
*   2.1.19 Golden Seal appeal - and Goldthread too - CHANGED
. 2.2  Herbs for specific things
.   2.2.1  Herbs for mosquitoes and other bothersome bugs
.   2.2.2  Herbs for migraines
.   2.2.3  Herbs for vivid dreams
*   2.2.4  Herbs and weight loss - ADDITION
.   2.2.5  Herbs to make you sleep
.   2.2.6  Aphrodisiacs
.   2.2.7  Herbal Abortives and Birth Control
.     2.2.7.1  Herbal Abortives and Common Sense
.   2.2.8  Herbs and female infertility
. 2.3  Processing herbs
.   2.3.1  Distilling things
.   2.3.2  Pointer to the How-to of Tinctures
.   2.3.3  Herbal oils
. 2.4  Pointers to related documents
    2.4.1  Tinnitus FAQ pointer
    2.4.2  Plants by Mail FAQ pointer
    2.4.3  Carpal Tunnel Syndrome WWW page pointer
    2.4.4  Hint for Kombucha posters
    2.4.5  Hint for Essiac posters
    2.4.6  Thinking of growing herbs for sale?
    2.4.7  Saw Palmetto and Prostata problems: Newsgroup/FAQ pointer
    2.4.8  Natural high FAQ pointer
    2.4.9  Natural vision FAQ pointer
    2.4.10 Smoking herbs document pointer
    2.4.11 Gout FAQ pointer
    2.4.12 Pointer to herbal-medical glossary
    2.4.13 Pointer to critical reviews of Consumer Reports' article
           'Herbal Roulette'
. 2.5 Other topics that are frequently discussed
.   2.5.1  Melatonin
3   General Info
. 3.1  Introduction to side effects, safety and toxicity of medicinal
       herbs
. 3.2  Wildcrafting Ethics
*   3.2.1  United Plant Savers - ADDITION
. 3.3  Different schools of Herbal Healing
.   3.3.1  Traditions in Western Herbal Medicine
.   3.3.2  Ayurveda - an introduction
.   3.3.3  Pointers to homeopathy sites etc.
*   3.3.4  What is Traditional Chinese Medicine? - ADDITION
*   3.3.5  Bach (and other) Flower essences - ADDITION
. 3.4  Commercial posts and how to get rid of them
. 3.5  The Ames Test
. 3.6  Trying out the placebo effect
4   Good Printed Sources
* 4.1  Good Books on Herbal Medicine - CHANGED - a bit only
* 4.2  Good Books for further studies - CHANGED - a bit only
. 4.3  Good Magazines
5   Other sources
. 5.1  Napralert - on-line commercial database
. 5.2  Medline - on-line commercial database
. 5.3  Good Herbprograms for the PC
. 5.4  Good Herbprograms for the Macintosh
. 5.5  Herbal CD-ROM
6   Teachings etc..
. 6.1  Apprenticeships offered lately
. 6.2  Pointers to schools
*   6.2.1  ND degrees and accreditation - ADDITION
. 6.3  Correspondence courses in the UK
. 6.4  Etc.
.   6.4.1  Southwest Conference on Botanical Medicine 20-21 Apr 96
.   6.4.2  1996 Herb Festival - "Herbs Around The World" 9/7/96
   (when would that be? July or September? an European wants to know)
7   Check these sites
. 7.1  FTP sites with info on medicinal herbs
.   7.1.1  Sunsite Herb archives
.   7.1.2  Herbal Hall
. 7.2  Interesting WWW pages
8   Mailing lists
. 8.1  The Herblist
. 8.2  The Aromatherapy list
. 8.3  The Holistic list
. 8.4  The Kombucha list
. 8.5  The Paracelsus Mailing list
. 8.6  The OrMed Mailing list
. 8.7  The Homeopathy List
. 8.8  The Phytopharmacognosy List
. 8.9  The Culinary Herblist
* 8.10 The Napronet - ADDITION
* 8.11 whatever the other one was - ADDITION
9   Related newsgroups

==========
1 Introduction

-----
Hi all,
This is the (umpth + n) edition of the FAQ / Resource list.
(I've lost track).
Feel free to send additions, corrections and comments.

HeK@hetta.pp.fi.

==========

1.1 Wishlist

-----
The following topics are up for grabs:

Wanted for chapter 2.1 (Single herbs):
  Guarana
  Ephedra (Ma Huang)

Wanted for chapter 2.2. (Herbs for specific things):
  Herbs for asthma
  Herbs for nervous disorders, motor ticks, Torrettes - anyone?
  Herbs for cough / flu
  Herbs and diarrhoea / constipation

Wanted for chapter 2.3 (Processing herbs):
  Dried or fresh herbs? - I know this is difficult, what with every
  genus being individual... anyway, anyone give it a shot? Please?

Wanted for chapter 3.3 (Different schools of herbal healing):
  Aromatherapy - an introduction

Wanted in addition:
  Anything else you see posted every so often, but that I
  haven't included in the FAQ or on the wishlist.

If you wish to contribute send me a short note; I'll keep track
of who promised to do what, and if you can't find the time to put
something together in two months your topic will be up for grabs
again.
Your contribution can be as long as you wish to make it; but it
should be GOOD (like all the entries in this FAQ - thanks, folks).

Also, if you really know what you are talking about I'd like to hear
your comments on any entry in this FAQ.
(Strange folks- all I ever get is 'Good Show. Keep it up.', but
 no-one ever tells me if they found any errors.)

==========
2. Frequently asked questions and other useful stuff

==========

2.1 Single herbs

==========
2.1.1  Valeriana
-----
Also see Herbs to make you sleep (2.2.5).

-----
> Valeriana - uses? pros? cons? safety? dosage?

From tcaldec@Direct.ca (Todd Caldecott):
Valerian is an excellent herb to use, in combination with other herbs,
or used alone.  The active constituents are the volatile oil
(isovalerianic/enic acid) and valepotriates.  Valerian depresses the
central nervous system, similar to GABA (which occurs naturally in the
brain and inhibits nerve impulse transmission.)  There are no cons to
taking valerian other than if you use it other than in a capsule it can
smell up your house as a tea.  Or if you have cats they may rub up
and down your leg (they like it, similar to catnip) while you are
drinking you tea, causing you to stumble and fall, spilling hot liquid
all over yourself.  For Valerian to be effective you must take it in
sufficient quantities to work e.g. 1-2 tsp. of the tincture (alcohol
extract) before bed, or 6-10 capsules of the dried plant.  Onset is
typically 1 hour.  You may awaken a little muddleheaded, which is
quickly relieved as soon as you move about. For a daily dose, 5 ml
(1 tsp.) of the tincture 3 times a day between meals is the standard
dose.

About 20% of the population respond to Valerian as a stimulant, so
if you take it and have insomnia or buzzed out, try hops, chamomile,
passionflower, skullcap or Avena, which are all excellent herbs to
relieve stress, anxiety and insomnia.

=====
2.1.1.1  Valeriana is not derived from Valium
-----
From hrbmoore@rt66.com (Michael Moore):

>Valerian is the parent of Valium isn't it?

There is absolutely NO connection between Valerian and Valium...believe
me...just an accident of circumstance...Valeriana is a classic Roman
Latin reference...Valium is an invented trade name...a copycat name from
a pharmaceutical manufacturer to aid in making a conscious or
unconscious connection with "Librium", a successful tranq whose market
Valium was originally aimed at.

Valerian HAS had some anecdotal use for ADD...the only problem is that
extended use of enough Valerian to have value has ALSO brought about
emotional lability in some folks.  Using herbs as drug substitutes has
value, but with Valerian having SO many different physiologic effects
(depressant for CNS, stimulant to gastric, pulmonary and cardiovascular
functions) it is a botanical that is best used within a constitutional
framework...i.e. evaluating the PERSON metabolically to find out if the
profile of effects from Valerian is complementary or antagonistic.

-----
From Colette Gardiner <coletteg@efn.org>:

Re the name Valium and its relation to the name Librium. For some weird
reason I actually remember reading an article in the newspaper on the
new drug Valium. There was a quote from the inventor basically saying he
had been trying to invent something similar to Librium only better. He
went on for a paragraph or so about comparing the various sensations and
effects, and concluded that yes Valium was "nicer".

==========
2.1.2  Yohimbe
-----

From _urban shaman_, reached over Carras@aol.com:

If people wanted to obtain a legal hyperalert sexually aroused state,
they might find some yohimbe and brew it up by simmering a quart of
water with 1 gm of ascorbic acid to 5 gm yohimbe until there's only 50%
of the original water volume left. Add a lot of sugar afterward. Mixes
synergistically with sassafras and Pau d'arco if you're adventurous and
would like to cure your ills and get a hard-on at the same time.
However, most people who have tried yohimbe have been disappointed.
They didn't know you need to brew it 20 to 30 minutes at approx.
200x with an organic acid to release the alkaloid components.

The active alkaloid, yohimbine bitartrate, is the component of the only
allopathic medicines known to cause erection in impotent males and
approaches the concept of an aphrodisiac. Yohimbine bitartrate
particularly affects nerves and changes blood flow regulators in the
genital area. The medical texts never mention that it does the same
thing to women, showing a typical disregard for female erection.

In the best case scenario this decoction will cause many users get a
melting spinal sensation and extreme epidermal sensitivity with high
interpersonal perception and melding. It can be extremely sexually
arousing...or at least all the signs and signals are there...

And the worst case scenario for yohimbe? - well, you have to remember
ethnographic reports documenting cases of some African tribes drinking
it in copious quantities in pre-raid rituals to suppress fear and jack
up physical aggressiveness. After getting to the point where they were
bouncing up and down so much they looked like a mosh pit full of
spears, they'd run 10 miles over to the next village and kill off most
of the neighboring tribe, stopping only to rape the dogs, cattle,
women, children, surviving males, dead bodies, water jugs and tree
boles before running back home. I'm not sure this is something we need
downtown on Friday night.

Yohimbe Caution: it will keep both partners up all night. In the male
of the species this becomes really inconvenient and irritating as after
a few hours an erection becomes more of a liability than an asset -
especially as this aspect continues long past the point - as long as 8
hours - where you'd like to go to sleep and there's this turgid log
attached to you that won't go away and is just beginning to ache.

Note on the Caution: A warm bath can help with the log-on problem, as
can gentle massage. However this should be avoided for at least four
hours after ingestion because of the effect of raised body temperature
on metabolism of the alkaloid - i.e., heat could intensify the stimulant
effects.

Females are not exempt from this - it has the same effect on them,
although it is easier to sleep on.

A possible downside of this erectile effect in high doses is the danger
of blood vessel damage and gangrene in the penis resulting from the
localized poor circulation condition known as penile erection.

-----
More from _urban shaman_ on the subject:

There are a number of caveats re yohimbe - it shouldn't be taken with MAO
inhibitors or by persons with high blood pressure, diabetes, glaucoma, or a
history of mental disturbance, especially including bipolar disorder.

A good dose prepared using methods as I described can have profound
psychological effects - enough so that 'set' and 'setting' can become
issues if the concentration/quantity is sufficient. This condition
can easily be entered into by simply acquiring relatively recently
gathered/dried/imported specimens of the herb and using enough of it.
Botanicals are very wiggly in the potency dept. - a primary breakdown
in the process occurs when practitioners have never seen a 'good'
specimen of the herb in question. There are no low cost analytical
methods for determining the active compound density of herbal
materials gathered in the wild. It totally depends on recognition by
experts - and sometimes even the best of them may have to compromise,
as there just may not be any high quality material to be had.

-----
Still more from _urban shaman_ on the subject:
(you know, this one is getting better and better. - HeK)

I'm still looking for the medical abstracts I have about the action of
Yohimbe. The "approved" alkaloid is Yohimbine Hydrochloride.  Herbal
Yohimbe extracts are sold by a number of health food companies
including I believe Michaels and Herb Pharm. Yohimbe bark and powder
may be available from "...of the Jungle" in Sebastopol CA. Please
remember, if you're considering making extracts -  Yohimbe is strongly
synergized by alcohol. It is also easily extracted in alcohol/water -
but the alcohol should be evaporated off after extraction unless you're
looking for a real wowwow effect. There could be high blood pressure
complications from ingesting strong concentrations of Yohimbe. Dayton
Laboratories sells the prescription preparation Dayto Himbin in tablet
and liquid form. The tablets contain about 5.5 mg hydrochloride. The
liquid contains phenylalanine as well and should be used with caution.
Total daily doses run on average between 20-30 mg of the hydrochloride.

The medical action is to increase penile blood inflow and decrease
penile blood outflow. The action is cited as having an erectile
function without increase in libido. I have not taken the hydrochoride
so don't speak from direct experience.

Although the caveats state that Yohimbine exerts no cardiac
stimulation, it is later noted that Yohimbine is an unpredictable CNS
stimulant and may cause elevated blood pressure and cardiac rates.

From this information I hazard we are to take it that in the same
manner that yohimbine causes erections without raising libido, it also
causes cardiac rate increase without stimulating the heart? (I love the
guys who write this hype - they're so wise)

Buried deep in the caveats for the dayto himbin product is language
saying you should not give this to people with a history of mental
instability, and that it causes recipients to express a range of
curious behaviors at doses lower than those required to cause erection
- among which are tremors, irritation, dizziness, flushing (note that
Niacin causes a body flush at sites almost identical to those of a
sexual flush.

Horse breeders administer large doses of niacin to both parties of a
horse breeding "to get them in the mood". I would not suggest, however,
that taking niacin along with yohimbe would have a parallel effect.
If you don't know what a "sexual flush" is - take 200 mg of niacin and
stand naked in front of a 3 panel mirror and watch your face, neck,
"loins", and chest.

=====
2.1.2.1  Yohimbe is a MAO inhibitor, yohimbine isn't
-----
From Michael Moore:

The alkaloid yohimbine is NOT an MAO inhibitor. The herb yohimbe IS.

The whole plant is potentially so evil and insidious BECAUSE it's complex
chemistry contains both adrenergics AND cholinergics...with effects that
substantially mimic both sympathetic adrenergic, sympathetic cholinergic
AND parasympathetic neuroreceptors all at the same time.  It contains both
yohimbine alkaloid groups (stimulating and hypertensive) and several
potent reserpinoid (Rauwolfia) alkaloids (tranquilizing and hypotensive)
...a warlock's brew.

Consistent use will, because of it's wildly opposite effects, find and
widen metabolic chinks in almost ANYBODY.

==========
2.1.3 Absinthe FAQ pointer
-----
If you really are serious about Absinthe go get the alt.drugs FAQ on
the subject from ftp://hyperreal.com/drugs/faqs: FAQ-Absinthe.
Or get it from the WWW: http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/absfaq.html/

Be warned - thujone IS dangerous, no matter what that FAQ says.
Comments about this line follows:

=====
2.1.3.1  More on Absinthe
-----
From christopher@gn.apc.org (Christopher Hedley):

Dale Kemery wrote
>I've been puzzled by absinthe for a long time. My recent reading has
>only intensified my curiosity. Is/was absinthe a true psychedelic
>beverage? Or what were/are its effects? For a long time I relied on
>the traditional reports about absinthe turning the brain to mush.
>However, considering the hysterical disinformation campaign of Howard
>Anslinger aimed against marijuana, I've become very suspicious of any
>official strictures. What *is* the story about wormwood/absinthe?
>Where can I learn more?
>
>--Dale--

This is from R.F.Weiss, Herbal Medicine. Weiss was an MD who taught
herbal medicine in medical schools in Germany, so I suppose he counts
as fairly impartial and reliable:

"The plant contains 0.25-0.5% of a volatile oil the main constituent of
which is thujone as well as bitters. The bitter action predominates.
Wormwood is a typical aromatic bitter. The volatile oil is remarkably
effective against worms. It is however toxic, whilst the bitter
principle is largely non-toxic. Absinthe is made with wormwood oil, but
in Germany its manufacture has been banned since 1923. The usual
wormwood preparations contain so little of the oil that there is no
risk of toxic effect. In some Mediterranean countries, where absinthe
is consumed in large quantities, the seriously damaging effects on the
central nervous system which have given the plant its bad name may
develop and even lead to seizures. This shows that wormwood also has
central stimulant properties that are no doubt of benefit in the small
quantities normally used.
Wormwood herb, for tea, 1 teaspoon to a glass of boiling water, leave
to infuse for 10 minutes.
Wormwood tincture. 10-20-30 drops three times daily in water."

Comment; so the story is the same one as coffee, i.e. abuse/ overuse of
a perfectly good and useful herb.
Wormwood is Artemisia absinthium, it is used a lot in aperitif wines
and spirits in Europe, but only in small amounts or it dominates the
taste.
It is mostly used for intestinal parasites, 'weak digestion', liver and
gall bladder troubles and as an emmenagogue. I always recommend it as a
prophylactic for folk traveling to hot countries, 15 drops of tincture
three times daily usually does the trick. The American spp of Artemisia,
incl. sagebrush and mugwort, have pretty much the same properties.
- No Artemesias should be taken during pregnancy.

I trust this is useful info.  Christopher Hedley

-----
From Howie Brounstein <howieb@teleport.com>:

>>Be warned - thujone IS dangerous, no matter what that FAQ says.

The reason this line is attached to the Absinthe Pointer is because
the Absinthe FAQ is slanted.

Most sources say that long term use of Absinthe is dangerous and
debilitating. I was under the impression that many people became
addicted to it and suffered mental and physical deterioration, thus it
became outlawed. I would stress that this is long term use. Wormwood,
Artemisia absinthium is pretty nasty stuff, you would have to drink a
lot of tea to feel its narcotic like effects, but by then you'd be
retching from its foul taste. Of course, you could try to hide the
flavor with other stuff ... thus Absinthe.

Personally, I don't like it, don't feel its worth the havoc on your
body for the effect. I like the smell of it, and would keep it around
for that. The Absinthe FAQ, however, takes the point that it may be
harmless, that the debility was caused by alcohol addiction, or
Absinthe impurities, and a marihuana - like political scare tactics.
I am not sure what to make of it, but the warning does remain that
thujone is dangerous when taken in large enough quantities, and that
the Absinthe of history did hurt a generation of people no matter what
the specifics.

>If thujone is so dangerous, what are we to make of it as the primary
>constituent of Artemisia? Are we endangering ourselves whenever we
>inhale it?

Firstly, the chemistries of Artemisia absinthium and Mugwort, Artemisia
vulgaris or douglasiana are different. Some of the contraindications
are different; the uses are different; their histories are different.
Also, it may be a bit premature to say that one chemical, thujone, is
THE active ingredient in either. That would be a bit too reductionist
for my tastes. We can't even assume that because a plant contains some
small amount of a poison, that the plant is poisonous, or we'd have to
give up onions, spinach, mustard. The difference between food and
poison is often dosage; the difference between poison and medicine is
dosage. So let's focus on thujone. A brief list of plants containing
thujone includes:

Salvia officinalis L. - Sage  (Leaf)
Salvia triloba L. - Greek Sage  (Plant)
Artemisia dracunculus L. - Tarragon  (Shoot)
Mentha x rotundifolia (L.) HUDSON - Applemint  (Leaf)
Pycnanthemum tenuifolium SCHRAD. - Slenderleaf Mountain Mint  (Shoot)
Mentha pulegium L. - European Pennyroyal  (Plant)
Thymus orospedanus H. del VILLAR - Orosped Thyme  (Plant)
Achillea millefolium L. - Yarrow (Plant)
Capsicum frutescens L. - Cayenne (Fruit)
Carum carvi L. - Caraway (Fruit)
Glycyrrhiza glabra L. - Licorice (Root)
Juniperus sabina L. - Sabine (Plant)
Matricaria recutita L. - Annual Chamomile (Plant)
Mentha arvensis L. - Cornmint (Plant)
Sassafras albidum (NUTT.) NEES - Sassafras (Root)
Satureja hortensis L. - Summer Savory (Plant)

This list, and others like it is available free from the Phytochemical
databases (links on my home page and many other places)
http://www.teleport.com/~howie/howie.html

So as you can see, many plants that are very safe (in normal dosages)
contain this chemical.  So smell your Mugwort, drink Mugwort tea, smoke
it, smear the juice all over your body on a vision-dream quest, just
don't extract pure thujone from it and snort it.

>Someone on another list suggested smoking Artemisia because there's a
>strong connection with MJ--both affect the same (or similar) receptors
>in the brain, and are apparently similar botanically (I don't know
>what that means technically). Additionally, a book called *Absinthe,
>History in a Bottle* by Barnaby Conrad III mentions thujone-enol's
>structural similarity to THC.

Smoking Artemisias? Hmm, for me Mugwort is a flavor, used in small
amounts as not to be too overwhelming.  Kind of mentholly. Or perhaps
for it's dreaming effects. But once again folks are implying a
generalization: This one constituent (or group of constituents) is
shaped like THC, and perhaps affects the same receptor sites as THC, so
it must make you feel like you smoked THC. Oops, flawed logic again.
Just because the shape of two molecules are similar doesn't mean that
they have similar biological effects.

They might, but its not guaranteed. My take on this: Ingesting Mugwort,
or any Artemisia I've tasted, does not make you feel like you've
ingested Marihuana.

So enjoy the smells, drown your concerns, and a happy, aromatic
holiday season to all you netters out there.

Howie Brounstein
howieb@teleport.com

-----
From Dale Kemery, DalePK@aol.com, to above:

I thought you might be interested in more complete information about
absinthe, wormwood and thujone, after our recent exchange on the
subject. I've come across a comprehensive summary about it in Jonathan
Ott's superb "Pharmacotheon." (Although using his name with any glowing
adjective is redundant because everything I've seen of his is so
complete, exhaustive and thoroughly researched and studied.)

"Absinthe was prepared by distilling alcohol over mashed leaves of
wormwood, and other common ingredients were Angelica root, Acorus
calamus rhizome (which may contain the psychoactive asarones;...),
cinnamon, fennel seed, star anise (both of which contain anethole,
another potentially psychoactive compounds...) and other plants. The
characteristic and much-desired green color of the liqueur, which was
supposed to whiten when mixed with water, was sometimes artificially
enhanced by addition of indigo and other plants, or toxic metal salts
like copper sulfate and antimony chloride...

He chronicles the history of the banning of absinthe and a recent
renewal of interest in absinthe, then says:

"It is commonly assumed that the thujones were the neurotoxic
principles of absinthe, although alcohol also is a potent neurotoxin
(absinthe contained from 68-85% alcohol) and significant quantities of
copper and antimony salts used as adulterants (particularly in cheap
imitation absinthe for the poorer classes) may have been present and
responsible for the neurotoxicity...While large doses of injected
thujones are unquestionably toxic, modern toxicological studies of
thujones, in the quantities present in absinthe, without the copper and
antimony adulterants, are needed before concluding that the
neurotoxicity associated with absinthism was a consequence of thujone
content. I suspect the copper and antimony salts, as well as the
unusually high alcohol content had more to do with absinthe toxicity
than the thujone content. Non-thujone essential oils commonly present
in absinthe have also been shown to have convulsant properties and are
probably neurotoxic."

The obvious inference is that thujone is unlikely the culprit in
"absinthism." And even though he acknowledges the toxicity of "large
doses of injected thujones," the operative words are "large" and
"injected." It may be assumed (without any evidence to support this
statement) that swallowing thujone in some form (tea, for example)
would subject it to the chemical rigors of digestion, a pathway that
is much different from intravenous or even intramuscular injection.
Whether the same can be said for, say, smoking a thujone-containing
plant is another matter since inhalation effectuates a much more direct
transfer into the blood without the intervention of hydrochloric acid,
pepsin and other digestive enzymes.

--Dale--

-----
From christopher@gn.apc.org (Christopher Hedley):

a note..  Sage (Salvia officinalis) essential oil is 30% thujone and
good sage has up to 2.5% essential oil. Wormwood contains 1% essential
oil, I don't have a figure on the % of thujone but if we assume it to
be less than half then it is possible to consume more thujone in Sage
tea than in Wormwood tea and no one has suggested that long term use
of sage is toxic.

Distilling alcohol over Wormwood would extract mostly the volatile
oil. Weiss says that the pure volatile oil was also used in the making
of absinthe - this is still an ingrained habit in food and drink
manufacture and one that should be condemned. Flavouring with volatile
oils is NOT the same as flavouring with plants.

Thujone has been given bad press but I still don't think that
consuming large amounts of volatile oil for long periods has anything
to recommend it. Also the thujone has strong stimulating effects,
noticeable when smoking wormwood - which as Howie says is nothing like
smoking Mugwort. Presumably absinthe had the same degree of stimulation
and thus people were encouraged to drink more and abuse it.

The comparison between thujone and THC is an interesting example of
just how far theory can lead people astray. Always try for yourself
I say.

----
From Howie Brounstein <howieb@teleport.com>:

> Also the thujone has strong stimulating effects, noticeable when
> smoking wormwood- which as Howie says is nothing like smoking
> Mugwort. Presumably absinthe had the same degree of stimulation and
> thus people were encouraged to drink more and abuse it.

Hmmm. Did I say that. Oh yes, so I did. It is hard to put into words.
Mugwort can be used like Wormwood for worms, warming, female reproductive
system effects, and it has similar contra-indications. Yet wormwood has
something else, a more overtly drugged feeling it produces that I have
never experienced with other Artemisias. I don't know what chemical is
responsible for it, it may be thujone unrelated, for all I know. But
I know the feeling.

=====
If you still want to try it here's one how-to, and a vivid description
of the experience:

-----
>Making Absinthe is extremely easy, as long as you don't require the
>full alcoholic content.  Just take Pernod, pour off about an ounce and
>cram wormwood herb in the top.  Let it set for a week or two.  That's
>it. Pernod is Absinthe without the wormwood and about half the
>alcohol.

From ix@io.com (Lupo LeBoucher):

This is unlikely to absorb much thujone; for a really horrible and
ridiculously potent absinthe, buy a fifth of 100proof vodka, pour it
over an ounce of wormwood, and a quarter ounce of anise seeds, and let
it steep for a month or two. After straining the liquid, the resulting
decoction will be a horrible looking liquid with approximately the
color and psychoactivity of 1970s gasoline, though gasoline tastes
better (long story).

To ingest (one cannot drink it), pour over a lump of sugar into a
strong mixture of water & lemon juice, hold nose, and swallow before
you taste the bitter horror. Be sure to do this in the vicinity of a
sink with running water; one may need to wash the awful stuff down or
provide your absinthe with a convenient place to rest should it decide
to come up for a breather.

Effects reportedly include, audio-visual hallucinations similar to the
opiates, with a bit o nitrous; numb mucus membranes; dizziness, nausea,
picking up the ugliest member of the opposite sex one has ever
encountered and vomiting green bile over oneself while asleep (experts
disagree whether or not the latter was an effect of the previous,
rather than an effect of the thujone -ask Heysoos, I didn't do it).

The above recipe was taken from a book called "The Magical and Ritual
Uses of Herbs" (by Richard Allen Miller) which described Absinthe as
"an excellent after-dinner liqueur" which makes one wonder what types
of dinners Mr. Miller has at his place.

Lupo

-----
From ix@io.com (Lupo LeBoucher):

>Anise has no effect; the active ingredients in absinthe are just
>wormwood and alcohol.

The anise went in the mix in a misguided attempt to kill some of the
bitter flavor (since it was what the standard recipes used). All I
succeeded in doing was killing some of the wormwood "flavor" *retch*
upon burping.

>The plain wormwood probably could be swallowed as a tea followed by
>the booze as a chaser.  The plain infusion used to be prescribed as a
>"tonic".

I don't know if it would have the same effect; the essential oils in
the wormwood, which contain the active ingredients, are not likely to
be water soluble.

Lupo

-----
From stygianv@shadow.net (Coyote Osborne):

> Anise has no effect; the active ingredients in absinthe are just
> wormwood and alcohol.

Ah, but anise does have an important effect here. It keeps the
wormwood/absinthe from irritating your stomach so much. I would
recommend fennel and perhaps peppermint or basil for this also.

> The plain wormwood probably could be swallowed as a tea followed by
> the booze as a chaser.  The plain infusion used to be pre-scribed as
> a "tonic".

Actually, most of the things in wormwood are damaged or destroyed if
added to hot water. Warming it gently (like brandy) works, but not
making an infusion with water that is boiling. I suspect that a good
rule of thumb is that if it is hot enough to destroy alcohol, it is also
hot enough to make the wormwood lose it's efficacy.

>From reading that book or other, somehow I got the idea to make
>absinthe by mixing a whole ounce of wormwood in a half fifth of
>whiskey and for-getting about it for a few months.  That shit is
>impossibly bitter.  It's one of the most bitter herbal substances you
>know.

Yes. Not even the worms like it. : )

It does have some interesting properties, though, and prepared properly
can even taste... well I won't say nice... but it will taste such a way
that it is desirable.

Acquired taste perhaps? Good for the sensually indulgent? Weird?

Coyote

==========
2.1.4 St. John's Wort (Hypericum) and Photosensitivity
-----
Here's the question (on the herblist (see 8.1 below) in November
1994):
-----
As to Hypericum perforatum (St. John's Wort) causing photosensitivity
in humans, I have been unable to find a single study that verifies
this in vivo.  Lots of research on the effects of hypericin on cattle
and insects, but humans? This may be an example of assumptive jumping
from mammalian lab results to humans.  Anyone know a study that
indicates photosensitivity in humans do to Hypericum?

Cheers-
Peggy

-----
Here's the answer:

-----
From Howie Brounstein:

I don't know of any, Peggy.  I have not heard of one case of human
photosensitivity, even in the blond, blue-eyed, fair skinned ones,
from standard dosages of tincture.  Now I haven't asked any albinos
doing truckloads of hypericum a day - maybe they'd have a problem.
I've known a few folks who definitely did not like the feeling they
got from St. John's Wort, but being slightly saner than the average
bear, they stopped taking it.  Perhaps they've shunned the sun if they
continued.  But albino cows definitely have a problem with St. John's
Wort.

And so the authorities that be in charge (of cows and bugs, anyway) in
Northern California has waged a war against the poor St. John, hapless
victim of human transport from Europe.  By releasing bugs from afar,
they strive to rid our pasture of this scourage from the old country.
Alas, for I wonder - when there are only small populations left in the
area, will St. John become a rare and protected plant??

I do know that some common psychiatric pharmaceuticals DO cause
photosensitivity in humans...

And when you hold the leaves of the hypericum perforatum the light
of the sky you will see little holes, actually compartments
(perforations), that trap and use the energy of the sun to run a
biochemical factory, making hypericin, the red colored constituent
assumed to be one of the active ones.  Squueeezze that unopened flower
bud - just a hint of yellow petals peaking so cautiously from its
sepal safety - sqqqueeeezze and you will delight to find a drop of
redness so strong as to dye the fingers.

Now when I teach my students about this Wort, we general use flower
buds and the stems and small leaves attached to them to prepare oils
and tinctures. This appears to work just fine, producing extracts of
wondrous redfulness. But those who wish for an herbal nectar of
delight of greater strength, they sit for hours collecting just flower
petals in some Zen like quest. Well, what good's an herbalist without
patience :) ...Certainly they are rewarded with extract of unequaled
value (not found in Cheapside).

Now I'm not one to believe new herbal scientific data until I see the
experiment reproduced by other researchers (especially if they have
different sources of funding).  Recently I saw an article (was it
Medical Herbalism?) that stated two research teams at about the same
time released results of this Wort being antiviral against enveloped
virus that include herpes, etc.  But of interest to me was the notion
that sunlight increased the Wort's anti-viral effects - that sun again
- somehow, in some mysterious way linked to this plant and it's
effects.  Without exposure to sunlight the herbs anti-viral effect
dropped markedly.

I don't have all that much experience with bipolar and other mental
disorders and Hypericum, although I believe that consistent dosages
long term is the way to go ...and careful with self medication.  With
many of these kinds of problems you may not be able to tell if it's
working, especially since you started taking it and you feel great, I
mean really good, as you swing up into a manic phase and over one edge
or the other.  Have someone who can help you gauge your illness
objectively (ha) or at least tell you if you've fallen off the fence.
It can be hard to tell from the inside.

So ideally the Wort would take away the highs and lows and make the
emotional rollercoaster of todays hectic society more even.  As
opposed to the muscle relaxing tranquilizing effects of Valerian,
Skullcap, Pedicularis, and such.  I don't know about clinical studies,
but in my experience the Wort works for some and not others for simple
depression and light rollercoaster rides that do not incapacitate the
riders.  And it even works as a muscle relaxant in some people.  Not
the "sure and steady" herb that works effectively for everyone (like
that bitter Hore Hound that makes everyone gag ...I mean cough.)

And this even tempered plant grows in disturbed places, roadsides,
lots, loves it when its been bulldozed a year or so ago.  A calming
herb that grows all over disturbed areas ...hmmmmm.  Perhaps one
shouldn't focus on the oddities and quirks of nature and coincidence,
but I think it's cool.

The Wort Oil is good for skin irritations and such. I seen it help
when the calendula, comfrey, penstemon and other herbs won't work.  It
also helps cuts and external physical injuries in general.  But in my
eyes it seems to have an affinity for the nerves, and it seems to be
specific for injuries accompanied by nerve trauma, like I cut my arm
and my finger goes numb. I wouldn't claim it reconnects severed
nerves, but it will aid in healing them if traumatized.  But don't be
mislead by symptoms - put the oil on the arm injury, not the numb
finger.

Howie Brounstein
C&W Herbs
Eugene, Oregon

-----
From Peggy to above:

>But of interest to me was the notion that sunlight increased the
 Wort's anti-viral effects...  (snip) Without exposure to sunlight the
 herbs anti-viral effect dropped markedly.

Yes, and another really neat thing is that the hypericin (and its
phototoxicity in predator insects) is activated, in the presence of
oxygen, at the same wavelength that is given off by the Hypericum
leaves in the sun. (540-610 nm).  Some insects that ingest Hypericum
have adapted by tying together leaves and feeding inside the ties,
therefore protecting themselves from the effects of the hypericin.
(Sandberg, SL, et al. "Leaf-tying by tortricid larvae as an adaptation
for feeding on phototoxic Hypericum perforatum." JOURNAL OF CHEMICAL
ECOLOGY, 1989 15(3):875-886.)

Cheers-
Peggy

-----
From Jonathan Treasure:

Phototoxicity of Hypericum in a small proportion of the (blonde)
population has been clinically noted especially with topical
application whether published or not.  Here is an extract from a
report from this years' Convention of Naturopathic Physicians in the
US which adds some interesting information about the incidence of
Phototoxicity in Puerto Rican AIDS sufferers

begins
One doctor at the conference who treats a lot of AIDS patients said
she had seen frequent cases of phototoxocity in dark skinned Puerto
Ricans, especially with higher doses and long term administration.
AIDS patients started taking hypericum when is was found that the
hypericin had an anti-HIV effect in mice.  Use has persisted in spite
of later discovery that it doesn't help HIV in humans.  Most AIDS
patients feel much better when taking hypericum, probably because of
the antidepressant effect -- depression is probably the least often
mentioned symptom of AIDS.

Another doctor showed us her legs at the conference -- she had used a
hypericum ultrasound gel to treat a sprained ankle.  The ultrasound
drives the contents of the gel directly into the tissues.  She later
worked in the direct sunlight, and soon had second degree burns,
complete with blisters, whenever the sunlight fell on the gel-treated
skin.  Six weeks later we could still see the shadow on the back of
the leg where the sunlight didn't fall, and the shadow of a sandal
strap across the front of the ankle.  There was scarring from the
blisters.  By the way, she said the only thing that would help the
severe pain was aloe vera gel.
end

Jonathan
(jonno@teleport.com)

-----
From Peggy to above:

Thank you for the reply.  I suspected that incidents of phototox could
be found somewhere, just couldn't come up with them.  I understand
that Hypericin's anti-viral activities (in vitro) are dependent on
"light-dose" (wavelength and duration), drug-dosage, and the presence
of oxygen.  It makes sense, then, that phototoxicity was found at the
higher, long-term usages (in addition to other factors).  Thank you,
again.

Cheers-
Peggy

-----
From Howie Brounstein to above:

Still, I believe that the average user treating depression shouldn't
shy away from trying this Wort.  The chemical alternatives have their
dangers, too, including photosensitivity.  I'll avoid ultrasound/
hypericum treatments.

Howie

-----
From Michael Moore:

I have retailed and wholesaled herbs for 20 years and have taught and
written about green stuff for 16 years (...and breathed and micturated
for almost 54), and I have only run across 1 person to have shown
signs of photosensitization from Hypericum.  He was a student of mine
in an 8-month program a few years ago.  He was what my grandma used to
call "Black Irish" (I guess as opposed to a Dirty-Blond Irish like
myself) and had the semi-transparent skin and jet-black hair of people
like Liam or Patrick Clancy.  Since he suffered from some mild
hereditary neuropeptide imbalances that showed up as a fairly classic
long-cycle bipolarity, he was quite taken with the use of the fresh
tincture of both Hypericum perf. and H. formosum which we gathered
during a couple of field trips.

As he related a year later, he took a fly-fishing vacation after the
class, returning to a place in the San Juans of Colorado (8,500 feet)
that the class had visited.  He had been going through a depressive
period ("Got Those OLD Relationship Blues...scooby do-WOP...
(beat>...(beat>...scooby-dooby...do-WOP!"), and was taking up to an
ounce of the Hypericum tincture (1:2, fresh plant) a day...a truly
excessive amount (it's an Irish thing, y'know?).  He broke out in
hives that lasted nearly a month.  He casually announced that he had
been taking a pharmaceutical anti-depressant for nearly a decade...I
hadn't even noticed.  I guess I am too likely to take people as they
are without a second thought.
(snip>

I figure the photosensitivity resulted from
A.  Racial sensitivity
B.  High altitude
C.  VERY high dosage
D.  (he was a Pisces)
 --and especially--
E.  Synergy with antidepressant meds (that he declined to identify)

Several years later another man (a customer) had a lip herpes
outbreak, possibly the result of playing tennis in the sunlight while
using Hypericum to help some back pain.  He had had sun reactions
before, so it is hard to speculate further.
He too was Black Irish.

In both instances the herbs were taken internally and the media was a
fresh tincture...appropriate, since the dry herb is nearly inert.  The
student was using high quantities along with medication and the
customer showed little more than passing and perhaps serendipitous
symptoms, and I have had GALLONS of my Hypericum tincture and oil go
through my grubbies over a couple of decades (usually used by folks
going through a stretch of somato-psychic flakiness and often
manifesting a peculiar, if temporary, lack of judgment regarding
emotions, dosages, and self-monitoring).  I consider Hypericum to be
safe...this is based on personally observing hundreds of people who
have used quality Hypericum preparations (...mine).
I would need a BIG study to convince me otherwise...or I would need to
start getting negative feedback.

This is not an idle statement.  Like the Wandering Homeopath,
travelling the world seeking provings (you mean you haven't heard THAT
legend? Well, the way I hear it, old Dr. Kent had retired to practice
in Montana and one day this Basque sheepherder came into his
office...) I have always tried my best to keep track of potential
side-effects of herbs.  I use herbs constitutionally, and any synergy
or contraindication I encounter helps me to understand the secondary
effects of a remedy so I can try to fit herbs and people together more
reliably.

Secondary effects are my grist (am I mixing metaphors again??).  I
can't work on Susun Weed's precepts level, that the body takes what it
needs from what you offer it, anymore than I can work with a
phytopharmaceutical model that ignores the multi-systemic effects of a
plant while focusing only on a specific band of pharmacokinetics ...
better even (they say) to refine (reduce) DOWN to single constituents
so as to better exaggerate the band and diminish the "unwanted"
whispers.  Sort of like taking a lovely image and running it through
Photoshop plugins until you only have some raggedy and stark black-
and-white outlines that bear little resemblance to the source.  As
most herbs, only using Hypericum for its anti-anxiety effects is to
ignore the subtle shades and colors it causes as it moves INTO,
THROUGH and OUT of the body.  This three-dimensional hologram of
effects is what makes herbs superior to drugs...  in a wholistic
model...and makes drugs superior to herbs in a medical model.  To view
herbs primarily as safer "little sister" analogs to drug therapies
developed FOR the medical model is to be blind to the greater value
they have in vitalist wholism, and to avoid the greater task and
difficulty (and even glory) we face trying to build (rebuild) models
of health and disease derived from balance and imbalance.
(snip>

Michael
hrbmoore@rt66.com

-----
From Jonathan Treasure:

Well...  I just got 88 pages of bumpf from NAPRALERT on Hypericum and
there isn't a single mention of phototoxicity - so it seems that apart
from a couple of anecdotal cases its not an issue as Michael Peggy
Howie et aial say ...  just keep away from the ultra sound gel in the
solarium.

Further to the Wort being a lover of roadsides etc. Howie, it was
widely distributed through Europe in Roman times by marching
legionaries, who also used it soothe their sore feet.  (another
anecdote not in NAPRALERT)

jonathan
(jonno@teleport.com)

==========
End of part 1 of 7
==========
