From bigxc@firefly.prairienet.orgFri Jan 20 07:29:05 1995
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 94 15:34:43 CST
From: Brian Redman <bigxc@firefly.prairienet.org>
To: Multiple recipients of list <conspire@argus.cso.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 3 Num. 31


              Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 3  Num. 31
             ======================================
                    ("Quid coniuratio est?")
 
 
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SHERMAN SKOLNICK -- WHITEWATER UPDATE
 
Tom Valentine's guest on *Radio Free America* (Shortwave, 5.065 
MHz, mon-fri, 9 pm cst) on November 30, 1994 was independent 
researcher and founder of the Citizens Committee to Clean-up the 
Courts [CCCC], Mr. Sherman Skolnick. Note that views expressed in 
the following do not necessarily reflect my own views or those of 
Conspiracy Nation.
 
 +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +  +
 
[...continued...]
 
SHERMAN SKOLNICK [continues]:
So, I ended up in front of his [Gierum's] office. And he 
confessed to me in the presence of a former client, as a witness, 
that the White House is trying to "frame" him about this $50 
million and these other matters involving Clinton, and that he 
won't be able to defend himself, even though he's a skilled 
lawyer, because the thing is "wired", as they say. In other 
words, he was fearful that [the "fix" was in]... The only thing 
is that maybe, if I publicize it, maybe I can prevent him from 
getting "framed".
 
So we took the various points of his confession, we wrote it down 
just as he said it, and we put it into the record of this former 
client of his who's got a case pending. We sent the copy under 
the rules, as provided, to Mr. Gierum. And when it came up in 
court, Gierum didn't dispute it. So in a civil case, it's taken 
to be admitted. 'Cause when the time comes for him to challenge 
it, if he doesn't challenge it, it's taken to be admitted. Those 
are the rules. [CN -- But by "admitted" does Skolnick mean 
admitted into evidence or also an admission that the confession 
is true?]
 
So there is Gierum's confession in January '94 that relates to 
the current situation where sources close to Kenneth Starr are 
saying that there's a series of indictments coming, but that *so* 
*far* they're not gonna indict the President and the first lady. 
That is, *not* *yet*!
 
Now we happen to know a great deal about why they're delaying 
indicting the President and the first lady. First of all, they 
invoke "national security"; they feel the country is gonna be 
turned upside-down if the President is under indictment. I 
can't... The nearest that ever came to that was in '74 when a 
District of Columbia grand jury voted an indictment against Nixon 
which was squelched, and it wasn't discussed until 5 years later 
that there was such an indictment when Nixon resigned. Most 
people didn't realize that when Nixon was pardoned there *had* 
been a secret federal criminal indictment against him.
 
 
TOM VALENTINE:
Well, you see, in order to be pardoned he *had* to be indicted!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yeah! Legal...
 
 
VALENTINE:
You can't be pardoned without an indictment or a charge against 
you.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right! Legal scholars wrote articles in the legal publications, 
law journals, of -- How is it that the incoming, appointed 
President, Gerald Ford, pardoned Nixon... from *what*!? I mean, 
what... And that was because there was a squelched, suppressed, 
secret indictment. And the foreman of that grand jury talked 
about it 5 years later.
 
O.K. So that... I'm just giving you a little historical there.
 
*Now*, what's happening is, the grand jury in Little Rock is 
gonna either name Clinton and his wife as co-conspirators, which 
is one *hair* away from actual federal criminal indictment. And I 
don't know how the President is gonna be able to continue, being 
named as a co-conspirator, because a co-conspirator generally is 
so named because he becomes a government witness against the 
other defendants!
 
In other words, David Hale, the former municipal judge, has 
"fingered" Clinton and his wife as being involved in a *massive* 
Small Business Administration series of...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yes. David Hale literally has put out that he's willing to 
testify to this. And he probably already has told the grand jury 
that he was coerced into making these loans by the Governor at 
the time.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right.
 
 
VALENTINE:
And under Small Business Administration rules, he was coerced 
into breaking the rules.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
The next step that I'm going to go into is a little complicated. 
And I'm gonna try my very best to make it in non-technical 
language.
 
 
VALENTINE:
All right, the next step is very complicated so what we're gonna 
do is stop now. Because if you start on it, I'm gonna have to cut 
right in in about 15 seconds.
 
My guest is Sherman Skolnick. He is the Committee to Clean-up the 
Courts.
 
And you have a telephone number, quickly.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Uh, it's 731-1100, in Chicago, which is area code 312. That's a 
*regular* phone call [*not* a 900 number]...
 
 
VALENTINE:
All right. I'll plug it for ya.
 
I'm Tom Valentine. This is *Radio Free America*.
 
[...break...]
 
All right, we're talkin' with Sherman Skolnick, folks. And if 
you, any time, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day, there's a telephone 
number. It's not a special number; it's an ordinary telephone 
call. So in the middle of the night it won't cost you hardly 
anything. It's a 5-minute message. You dial 312-731-1100. That's 
the *Hotline*, from the Committee to Clean-up the Courts. And 
they've always got something juicy on it, wouldn't you say, 
Sherman?
 
 
SKOLNICK:
There's a summary of our discussion here today, about Clinton 
facing indictment.
 
 
VALENTINE:
All right! So you're ready now to bring us up to...
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Right. *Now*, so the Democrats control the Justice Department, 
right?
 
 
VALENTINE:
Yep.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
And they're well-aware of what Kenneth Starr, described in the 
popular press as a conservative Republican, special prosecutor 
appointed by, under special law, to go into these matters that 
the Justice Department would be disqualified to go into.
 
So Kenneth Starr is apparently gonna have the grand jury name 
Clinton and his wife as unindicted co-conspirators in a series of 
indictments involving former Justice Department official Webster 
Hubbell and the current Arkansas Governor, Jim "Guy" Tucker.
 
 
VALENTINE:
It would be pretty hard to indict Webster Hubbell and not indict 
his law partner from the Rose Law Firm [i.e. Hillary Clinton].
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Yeah. Well that's the problem they're dealing with. But they're 
being blackmailed and threatened. Because what happens is, on a 
previous program of yours I took an hour to explain how they shut 
down the cocaine smuggling operation at the Mena airport, 
Arkansas (which was under Clinton, as Governor), and have moved 
the dope operation just south of Chicago, to Joliet, where 
they're bringing in great loads of "China White" [heroin]. And 
the DEA and the FBI know all about it; I confronted their top 
people in October. And they won't *do* anything.
 
Now the reason for that is, the one that is arranging... that 
arranged this smuggling operation in '86, was Jim Thompson, who 
at *that* *time* was the [Republican] Governor of Illinois. He's 
still very powerful. He's a close crony of George Bush.
 
And so, the Democratic Justice Department, under Janet Reno, in 
so many words is saying, "O.K. You want to dirty-up the President 
and the first lady? Fine. We are gonna 'put to the wall' one of 
George Bush's closest cronies on a dope smuggling charge." And 
so, they've got the... there's a stand-off! In other words, they 
may not even indict, they may not even mention, Clinton and his 
wife as unindicted co-conspirators because Janet Reno's bunch is 
saying, "Hey! We're gonna put some [laughs], we're gonna put some 
Republicans to the wall!" [laughs]
 
 
VALENTINE:
You know that's, that's... There's a lot of people listening that 
would say, "Aww... come on. None of this can be true. People in 
that high-up [of a] bracket just don't get into things, don't do 
things like this. This is a lot of conspiratorial paranoia..."
 
 
SKOLNICK:
No, no, no, no, no. We... As I explained on a previous program, 
there was a Treasury [Department] unit investigating this dope 
smuggling since '83. Because it's a foreign thing, involving some 
espionage people bringing in "China White" (which is a very pure 
opium; it's high-purity), that the CIA and other espionage 
groups, the NSA and others, wanted... they didn't want it checked 
out! So the Treasury Department had compiled, in their unit, 
about 30,000 pages of surveillance reports. And they got very 
upset and (when they tried to shut down their operation) they 
turned it over to a private investigator. (And you can figure out 
who *that* might be.)
 
So, I mean...
 
 
VALENTINE:
It's hard to guess.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
[laughs] I mean, we know what we're talking about.
 
Thompson, our former Governor, is facing indictment. And it's a 
stand-off now whether Clinton and his wife will be named as 
unindicted co-conspirators...
 
 
VALENTINE:
Well why don't we indict 'em all!? That would be as juicy as 
"O.J." [Simpson]!
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Tom, as you know, I'm an independent: neither a Democrat nor a 
Republican -- "A plague on *both* their houses" -- *but*, I'm 
just reporting facts, as a journalist, of what is happening. I'm 
in favor of them, as a public-minded citizen, I'm in favor that 
they get Thompson, "Guy" Tucker, *and* Clinton and his wife! 
[laughs]
 
 
VALENTINE:
But the media, the media is sitting on this and they have access 
to this same information. But they don't... they're not gonna do 
anything.
 
 
SKOLNICK:
Well if you read the *Los Angeles Times* story very carefully, 
they are saying... Kenneth Starr, the special prosecutor, is 
*not* *yet* going to indict Clinton and his wife.
 
Well that's interesting. I mean, the very fact that that comes up 
in the second paragraph of the story as re-printed in the 
*[Chicago] Tribune* on November 25th. It's all very interesting!
 
I mean, those that know the facts, that know various peoples at 
various levels of the government -- like ourselves, because we've 
been at this since 1958; we're not greenhorns, you know what I 
mean? We know what the basis of this story is! There's a stand- 
off!
 
                   [...to be continued...]
 
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Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt.
Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et 
  pauperem.                    -- Liber Proverbiorum  XXXI: 8-9 

 Brian Francis Redman    bigxc@prairienet.org    "The Big C"
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    Coming to you from Illinois -- "The Land of Skolnick"        
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