From: hex@unseen.ac.am 
  
 On 20/08/2025 16:26, Jon Ribbens wrote: 
 > On 2025-08-20, Mark Goodge  wrote: 
 >> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 15:13:00 +0100, JNugent  wrote: 
 >>> On 20/08/2025 02:36 PM, Mark Goodge wrote: 
 >>>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 14:12:59 +0100, Andy Walker  
 wrote: 
 >>>>> On 20/08/2025 13:35, Mark Goodge wrote: 
 >>>>>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 01:16:32 +0100, JNugent  
 wrote: 
 >>>>> [ "You" is BB.] 
 >>>>>>> Or are you arguing that there should be no penalty for 
 >>>>>>> non-payment of fines? I think the best penalty for non-payment of 
 >>>>>>> fines is community service. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>>  I would agree;  but you then need a penalty for non-service of 
 >>>>> the community.  At some point, society has to have a Big Stick to wave 
 >>>>> at people who do naughty things and don't accept the punishment. 
 Stocks 
 >>>>> and pillories have the problem that they may become badges of honour. 
 >>>>> So we seem to be back to imprisonment?  [Tasering is, for me, too 
 >>>>> reminiscent of "six of the best" or flogging.  YMMV.] 
 >>>> 
 >>>> Yes; you do still need jail as the backup for when other forms of 
 >>>> punishment have been successfully evaded (eg, by not paying a fine 
 >>>> and not turning up for community service). But a lot of unpaid fines 
 >>>> are unpaid because the offender simply can't pay, not because they 
 >>>> won't pay. Given community service instead, they'll turn up and do it. 
 >>> 
 >>> The whole idea is supposed to be punishment. Giving convicted persons 
 >>> options as to how they'd like to be sentenced seems quite a novel 
 >>> proposition. 
 >> 
 >> I'm not suggesting giving them the option. I'm suggesting that giving 
 >> them a punishment they are capable of performing is better than one 
 >> they can't. 
 >> 
 >> Also, the other problem with a fine is when it's too small to be any 
 >> punishment at all. A hundred quid fine to, say, a Premier Leaguge 
 >> footballer is trivial - to them, it's just loose change. Far better to 
 >> give them a punishment that will actually hurt because it takes their 
 >> time rather than their money. 
 > 
 > "If the penalty for a crime is a fine, then it's only illegal for poor 
 > people." 
  
 So, fines are out, prisons are overcrowded, dangerous, expensive and 
 ineffective, and community service is full of exploitable loopholes. 
  
 You seem to be agreeing that Tasering is the only effective solution. 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)