From: aero.spike@mail.com 
  
 The Todal  wrote: 
 > On 30/08/2025 09:47, Spike wrote: 
 >> Jon Ribbens  wrote: 
 >>> On 2025-08-29, Spike  wrote: 
 >>>> Jon Ribbens  wrote: 
 >>>>> On 2025-08-29, Spike  wrote: 
  
 >>>>>> Briefly, he€€€s from Somalia, and fled when he was being pressed into 
 >>>>>> service with his local terrorist group. He went to Turkey. It€€€s not 
 >>>>>> clear how long he was there, or what happened. 
 >>>>> ... 
 >>>>>> To my mind, the EU seems to take a very pragmatic approach to the 
 >>>>>> economic migrant issue, only being concerned with why he left the 
 >>>>>> previous safe country. Couldn€€€t we do that here? 
 >> 
 >>>>> Why are you talking about economic migrants, when by your own 
 >>>>> description he is not an economic migrant? 
 >> 
 >>>> Then what sort of migrant is he, having left safe country after safe 
 >>>> country? He isn€€€t being pursued by anyone or threatened in the 
 countries 
 >>>> that he has stayed in, asylum as such doesn€€€t enter in to it. 
 >> 
 >>> I'm only going by what you said, which is that you don't know why he 
 >>> left Turkey but his applications for asylum in subsequent countries were 
 >>> rejected, so presumably he was forced to move on. Having found no asylum, 
 >>> he is still an asylum seeker by definition. 
 >> 
 >> That is simply not so. 
 >> 
 >> The Bell Hotel resident interviewed in the programme mentioned is not a 
 >> refugee/Asylum-seeker, according to the UN Refugee Convention. That says 
 >> that any refugee "who, coming directly from a territory where their life 
 or 
 >> freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or are present in 
 >> their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves 
 >> without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal 
 >> entry or presence". 
 >> 
 >> The young man did not €€€€€€come directly from a territory where his life 
 or 
 >> freedom was threatened€€€ in any EU country. He does not claim AFAIAA to 
 have 
 >> sought Asylum in Turkey. He does not claim to have been threatened in 
 >> Turkey. 
 >> 
 >> He then went to Greece and sought Asylum there. The Greeks, correctly 
 >> following the requirements of the said Convention, turned him down 
 >> doubtless because he failed two of the Convention€€€s requirements, namely 
 he 
 >> didn€€€t come from somewhere where he was threatened, and he didn€€€t come 
 >> there directly. 
 >> 
 >> He then went to Austria, voluntarily (because he did not claim to have 
 been 
 >> forced to do so) where he stayed for two years. His application was turned 
 >> down, probably because he didn€€€t satisfy the Convention requirements on 
 the 
 >> grounds mentioned. 
 >> 
 >> Ditto Germany, where he did not claim to have been forced to go. 
 >> 
 >> He gave up on Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, and France, seemingly 
 >> because he now finally realised that he did not meet the requirements of 
 >> the Convention and wasn€€€t going to get Asylum. 
 >> 
 >> So he paid €€€1000 to criminals to get on a rubber boat and come to 
 England, 
 >> where, of course, he still does not meet the requirements of the 
 Convention 
 >> for Asylum. 
 >> 
 >> That makes him a migrant, and because he is now getting feather-bedded 
 >> treatment and is given money to spend, that makes him an economic migrant. 
 >> 
 >> Is that clear enough for you? 
  
 > It's clear that you harbour a bitter hatred of him and his type. 
  
 You do like your hyperbole, don€€€t you! 
  
 You seem to be saying that the Greeks, the Austrians, and the Germans 
 harbour a bitter hatred of him. 
  
 I am against his playing the asylum card again and again and again, despite 
 having been turned down again and again and again. Is that what was 
 intended by the Convention? 
  
 > I am always amused when people claim that migrants are put up in 
 > "hotels" and the phrase "feather-bedded" comes up. As if they were in 
 > rather luxurious private rooms with all modern conveniences, en suite 
 > bathrooms, maybe mini-bars, maybe the ability to ring for room service. 
  
 The hotels in London were built like that, otherwise they would have 
 attracted little custom. 
  
 > The hotels where asylum seekers are housed are actually miserable places 
 > (I hear you shout hurrah!) with no privacy, often several people sharing 
 > a room. 
  
 I€€€ll wager it€€€s a better deal than is available in Somalia, for people 
 like 
 our economic migrant. 
  
 > https://www.refugee-action.org.uk/heartbreak-hotels/ 
  
 > https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/18/a-day-in-the-l 
 fe-of-an-asylum-hotel-inside-the-uks-most-controversial-accommodation 
  
  
 [continued in next message] 
  
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  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)