From: JNugent73@mail.com 
  
 On 21/08/2025 12:56 PM, Roger Hayter wrote: 
 > On 21 Aug 2025 at 12:22:00 BST, "Adam Funk"  wrote: 
 > 
 >> On 2025-08-20, Mark Goodge wrote: 
 >> 
 >>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 15:13:00 +0100, JNugent  wrote: 
 >>> 
 >>>> On 20/08/2025 02:36 PM, Mark Goodge wrote: 
 >>>>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 14:12:59 +0100, Andy Walker  
 wrote: 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>>> On 20/08/2025 13:35, Mark Goodge wrote: 
 >>>>>>> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 01:16:32 +0100, JNugent  
 wrote: 
 >>>>>> [ "You" is BB.] 
 >>>>>>>> Or are you arguing that there should be no penalty for non-payment 
 of 
 fines? 
 >>>>>>> I think the best penalty for non-payment of fines is community 
 service. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>>      I would agree;  but you then need a penalty for non-service of 
 >>>>>> the community.  At some point, society has to have a Big Stick to wave 
 >>>>>> at people who do naughty things and don't accept the punishment. 
 Stocks 
 >>>>>> and pillories have the problem that they may become badges of honour. 
 >>>>>> So we seem to be back to imprisonment?  [Tasering is, for me, too 
 >>>>>> reminiscent of "six of the best" or flogging.  YMMV.] 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> Yes; you do still need jail as the backup for when other forms of 
 punishment 
 >>>>> have been successfully evaded (eg, by not paying a fine and not turning 
 up 
 >>>>> for community service). But a lot of unpaid fines are unpaid because 
 the 
 >>>>> offender simply can't pay, not because they won't pay. Given community 
 >>>>> service instead, they'll turn up and do it. 
 >>>> 
 >>>> The whole idea is supposed to be punishment. Giving convicted persons 
 >>>> options as to how they'd like to be sentenced seems quite a novel 
 >>>> proposition. 
 >>> 
 >>> I'm not suggesting giving them the option. I'm suggesting that giving 
 them 
 a 
 >>> punishment they are capable of performing is better than one they can't. 
 >>> 
 >>> Also, the other problem with a fine is when it's too small to be any 
 >>> punishment at all. A hundred quid fine to, say, a Premier Leaguge 
 footballer 
 >>> is trivial - to them, it's just loose change. Far better to give them a 
 >>> punishment that will actually hurt because it takes their time rather 
 than 
 >>> their money. 
 >> 
 >> In some countries fines are scaled to income. 
 > 
 > They are in this country!  But not FPNs 
  
 And attempting to make FPNs fit the alleged offender's income would 
 completely undo the FPN system, because every case would have to be 
 assessed with an enquiry into means. 
  
 There's a clue in the "F" of "FPN". 
  
 And a hint (for some (not the PP)): the FPN system was instituted for 
 administrative convenience, not as a way of ensuring justice. 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)