From: littlelionne@hotmail.com 
  
 On 03/09/2025 12:41, The Todal wrote: 
 > On 03/09/2025 12:14, kat wrote: 
 >> On 31/08/2025 13:29, Roger Hayter wrote: 
 >>> On 31 Aug 2025 at 11:49:51 BST, "kat"  wrote: 
 >>> 
 >>>> On 30/08/2025 14:49, The Todal wrote: 
 >>>>> On 30/08/2025 09:47, Spike wrote: 
 >>>>>> Jon Ribbens  wrote: 
 >>>>>>> On 2025-08-29, Spike  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>> Jon Ribbens  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>> On 2025-08-29, Spike  wrote: 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>> Briefly, he€€€s from Somalia, and fled when he was being pressed 
 into 
 >>>>>>>>>> service with his local terrorist group. He went to Turkey. It€€€s 
 not 
 >>>>>>>>>> clear how long he was there, or what happened. 
 >>>>>>>>> ... 
 >>>>>>>>>> To my mind, the EU seems to take a very pragmatic approach to the 
 >>>>>>>>>> economic migrant issue, only being concerned with why he left the 
 >>>>>>>>>> previous safe country. Couldn€€€t we do that here? 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>> Why are you talking about economic migrants, when by your own 
 >>>>>>>>> description he is not an economic migrant? 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> Then what sort of migrant is he, having left safe country after safe 
 >>>>>>>> country? He isn€€€t being pursued by anyone or threatened in the 
 countries 
 >>>>>>>> that he has stayed in, asylum as such doesn€€€t enter in to it. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> I'm only going by what you said, which is that you don't know why he 
 >>>>>>> left Turkey but his applications for asylum in subsequent countries 
 were 
 >>>>>>> rejected, so presumably he was forced to move on. Having found no 
 asylum, 
 >>>>>>> he is still an asylum seeker by definition. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> That is simply not so. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> The Bell Hotel resident interviewed in the programme mentioned is not 
 a 
 >>>>>> refugee/Asylum-seeker, according to the UN Refugee Convention. That 
 says 
 >>>>>> that any refugee "who, coming directly from a territory where their 
 life or 
 >>>>>> freedom was threatened in the sense of Article 1, enter or are present 
 in 
 >>>>>> their territory without authorization, provided they present 
 themselves 
 >>>>>> without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal 
 >>>>>> entry or presence". 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> The young man did not €€€€€€come directly from a territory where his 
 life or 
 >>>>>> freedom was threatened€€€ in any EU country. He does not claim AFAIAA 
 to have 
 >>>>>> sought Asylum in Turkey. He does not claim to have been threatened in 
 >>>>>> Turkey. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> He then went to Greece and sought Asylum there. The Greeks, correctly 
 >>>>>> following the requirements of the said Convention, turned him down 
 >>>>>> doubtless because he failed two of the Convention€€€s requirements, 
 namely he 
 >>>>>> didn€€€t come from somewhere where he was threatened, and he didn€€€t 
 come 
 >>>>>> there directly. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> He then went to Austria, voluntarily (because he did not claim to have 
 been 
 >>>>>> forced to do so) where he stayed for two years. His application was 
 turned 
 >>>>>> down, probably because he didn€€€t satisfy the Convention requirements 
 on the 
 >>>>>> grounds mentioned. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> Ditto Germany, where he did not claim to have been forced to go. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> He gave up on Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, and France, seemingly 
 >>>>>> because he now finally realised that he did not meet the requirements 
 of 
 >>>>>> the Convention and wasn€€€t going to get Asylum. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> So he paid €€€1000 to criminals to get on a rubber boat and come to 
 England, 
 >>>>>> where, of course, he still does not meet the requirements of the 
 Convention 
 >>>>>> for Asylum. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> That makes him a migrant, and because he is now getting feather-bedded 
 >>>>>> treatment and is given money to spend, that makes him an economic 
 migrant. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> Is that clear enough for you? 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> It's clear that you harbour a bitter hatred of him and his type. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> I am always amused when people claim that migrants are put up in 
 "hotels" and 
 >>>>> the phrase "feather-bedded" comes up. As if they were in rather 
 luxurious 
 >>>>> private rooms with all modern conveniences, en suite bathrooms, maybe 
 >>>>> mini-bars, 
 >>>>> maybe the ability to ring for room service. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> The hotels where asylum seekers are housed are actually miserable 
 places 
 (I 
 >>>>> hear 
 >>>>> you shout hurrah!) with no privacy, often several people sharing a 
 room. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> 
 >>>> 
  
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