From: uklm@permabulator.33mail.com 
  
 On 20:25  17 Sep 2024, Tim Jackson said: 
 > On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:23:59 +0100, Pamela wrote... 
 >> 
 >> Nor can someone be "fleeing war" if they left the war zone two years 
 >> ago and have been living safely elsewhere. 
 > 
 > If they have *settled* somewhere for two years already, the Refugee 
 > Convention and the UNHCR both agree with you. 
 > 
 > However, living in a refugee camp is not settling. 
  
 The Palestinians turned that into an art-form and claimed refugee status 
 many generations after being displaced, even though their "camps" in 
 Gaza were built of brick and masonry with mod cons and the standard of 
 living was not so very different to that of Europe. 
  
 > Incidentally, in the few cases where they had indeed already settled 
 > in another EU country, this used to mean we could send them back there 
 > under the EU Dublin Regulation.  But then we left the EU without 
 > negotiating a replacement returns agreement. 
  
 Yes, that is one of the ironies of Brexit. Another is that it was 
 predicted (but largely unheeded) that after Brexit a far greater 
 proportion of legal migrants coming to work in the UK would be from 
 outside Europe. And it is so. 
  
 >> Furthermore, most of the small boat illegas have already been refused 
 >> asylum after having their case assessed by various European 
 >> countries. 
 > 
 > Your evidence for this? 
  
 The gap between the UK and Europe refusals has narrowed over recent 
 times. Not long ago I recall the EU grant rate was around 34 and the UK 
 rate around 65 percent. A very quick Google shows currently average EU 
 grant rate is currently approx 40 percent. 
  
  
  
 While the UK grant rate is 63 percent. 
  
  
  
 I suspect the difference may arise because the UK has been granting 
 asylum (or non-refugee indefinite leave to remain) as undocumented boat- 
 arrivals have nowhere else to be deported. This shouldn't occur but it 
 reflects the surprising number of administrative cockups and 
 extraordinarily poor UK policy decisions regarding immigration. 
  
 > The usual allegation from those opposing immigration is that they 
 > could have claimed asylum elsewhere but didn't. 
  
 Do you have evidence for asserting that is the "usual allegation", as 
 I'm not aware how anyone would establish that? 
  
 >> One might also ask why men of fighting age are fleeing (alleged) wars 
 >> at home, where they would surely be candidates for any government 
 >> military draft. Are these deserters? 
 > 
 > I see you've not been following the news from war-torn countries such 
 > as South Sudan. 
  
 The observation has been made long ago about how relatively few women 
 (or children) arrive by small boats compared to men. About 83% of small 
 boat arrivals in 12 months to June 2024 were male, according to this 
 report. 
  
 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53699511 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)