From: the_todal@icloud.com 
  
 On 18/09/2024 11:12, GB wrote: 
 > On 17/09/2024 15:44, Roger Hayter wrote: 
 >> On 17 Sep 2024 at 14:07:36 BST, "GB"  
 >> wrote: 
 >> 
 >>> On 13/09/2024 18:39, The Todal wrote: 
 >>> 
 >>>> If you are against the war, join the marches. 
 >>>> 
 >>> 
 >>> I'm also against what Hamas did, and the marches are ambivalent about 
 >>> that. 
 >> 
 >> They're "ambivalent" about climate change and the price of petrol. I 
 >> don't 
 >> really understand what you're trying to say. 
 >> 
 > 
 > Oh, I am sorry, but I think it's perfectly clear. 
 > 
  
 Not to me it isn't. 
  
 When people marched against the Vietnam War, they as individuals will 
 have had various thoughts in mind. The massacre of ordinary Vietnamese 
 people. Interfering in a country that posed no threat to the USA. 
 Perhaps for a majority, concerns that tens of thousands of young 
 American men were being sent to the slaughter and draft-dodgers were 
 being criminalised. 
  
 But were those marches "ambivalent" about whether the Vietcong should 
 win the war?  Were they "ambivalent" about whether Communism should be 
 allowed to supplant American democracy within America?  Only in the 
 minds of those who did not go on the marches and wanted America to win 
 an important war, no matter what the cost was. 
  
 People marching in support of the Palestinian victims in Gaza have one 
 main aim in mind - that the slaughter of innocent civilians should stop, 
 and that Israel should be put under economic and diplomatic pressure to 
 abide by UN resolutions. 
  
 If like Suella you think the marches are hate marches, or that the aim 
 of many marchers is to support Hamas, then you are making excuses for 
 Israel's outrageous behaviour and covering up a genocide. That's 
 ambivalence about whether 40,000 ordinary civilians are expendable and 
 are a necessary sacrifice to ensure Israel's security (leaving aside 
 arguments about whether it does ensure Israel's security or make it more 
 insecure). 
 It really isn't enough to say that it's all the fault of Hamas and that 
 all wars involve the deaths of innocent people. Hand-wringing is just to 
 salve the conscience of the hand-wringer. 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)