XPost: uk.politics.misc 
 From: incubus9536612@gmail.com 
  
 On 2019-07-13, Pamela  wrote: 
 > On 14:12  12 Jul 2019, Incubus  wrote: 
 > 
 >> On 2019-07-12, Pamela  wrote: 
 >>> On 11:17  12 Jul 2019, Incubus  wrote: 
 >>> 
 >>>> On 2019-07-12, Pamela  wrote: 
 >>>>> On 09:58  12 Jul 2019, Incubus  wrote: 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>>> On 2019-07-11, Pamela  wrote: 
 >>>>>>> On 15:08  11 Jul 2019, Incubus  wrote: 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> ... 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> Only €€3.5m had been drawn at the time of writing.  There are 
 >>>>>> conditions attached for further sums.  What makes you think that 
 >>>>>> this is a result of "Brexit"? 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> Whatever Aston Martin has received so far, it has scammed €€19m out of 
 >>>>> us taxpayers. 
 >>>> 
 >>>> It hasn't received €€19m so certainly has not "scammed" that amount. 
 >>> 
 >>> Aston Martin has scammed a promise that gives it €€19 million which, on 
 >>> account of its public unacceptability, was kept secret.  For shame. 
 >> 
 >> Where is the "scam" in all this?  If you believe some dishonesty has 
 >> taken place then state it. 
 > 
 > Giving Aston Martin a subsidy of €€25,000 per worker was so embarassing 
 > that it had to be hidden from public record -- until the BBC made its 
 > Freedom Of Information request. 
  
 That's a decision the government made and doesn't indicate that any "scam" 
 has 
 taken place. 
  
 Is that €€25,000 taken from the €€3.5m they have received or from the €€19m 
 the 
 total of which they are yet to receive? 
  
 >>>>> I said a company which 
 >>>>> enjoys generous govt subsidy can expect to be more successful in 
 >>>>> getting even more money if the EU are off the scene. 
 >>>> 
 >>>> What do you base that on?  It seems to me that the EU is all about 
 >>>> subsidising industry. 
 >>> 
 >>> The EU is about a great deal more than subsiding industry. 
 >> 
 >> That just happens to be one of the less malign aspects. 
 >> 
 >>>>>> Similar things occurred before the referendum.  If we're 
 >>>>>> playing tit for tat then just be grateful that Aston Martin wasn't 
 >>>>>> moved to Poland with the help of an EU grant. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> What would be so wrong with that? 
 >>>> 
 >>>> You know, the loss of British jobs, tax revenue and all that.  Nothing 
 >>>> important to you, perhaps, but quite important to a successful economy 
 >>>> and a functioning society. 
 >>> 
 >>> If we can't compete on international markets without taxpayer subsidiy 
 >>> then how do you think this will end?  Subsidies create unsustainable 
 >>> industries at public expense. 
 >> 
 >> Lots of industries are subsidised in one way or another.  Sometimes the 
 >> loss of those industries will pose a far greater cost than the subsidies 
 >> themselves. 
 > 
 > More often, that loss is overstated.  Cameron rushed to subsidise Tata 
 > Steel, also in South Wales, but he did so for political purposes to make 
 > hiselfm look good and not be seen "abandoning" British workers.  Yet the 
 > taxpayer would have had to fork out for it. 
  
 I'm a bit skeptical when it comes to bailing out foreign owned companies. 
  
 >> 
 >> ... 
 >> 
 >>>>> If we wish to subsidise British workers, such as Aston martin car 
 >>>>> workers, then let's do it openly through the income tax or tax 
 >>>>> credits system, rather than favour the most influential groups at the 
 >>>>> cost of those workers who can't lobby so effectively. 
 >>>> 
 >>>> I imagine it's the kind of thing that has to occur on a case by case 
 >>>> basis, costed and accounted for.  The EU have an open system of 
 >>>> subsidies and it is a cause of friction. 
 >>> 
 >>> The UK had an appalling track record of caving in to too company 
 >>> demands.  (Also union demands too.) The EU gave us some backbone and, 
 >>> in turn, forced out industries to become more competitive which is an 
 >>> excellent outcome for us. 
 >> 
 >> You can thank Thatcher for that.  The EU's insistence that local 
 >> authority contracts should be opened up to the entire EU has resulted in 
 >> the closure of British businesses.  They aren't competing at all now. 
 > 
 > There's no commercial gain by propping up uncompetitive national 
 > industries. 
  
 The British businesses I refer to were competitive before foreign 
 competition 
 from the Eurozone decimated them. 
  
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