XPost: uk.radio.amateur, uk.politics.misc, uk.d-i-y 
 From: abelard3@abelard.org 
  
 On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 15:38:28 -0000 (UTC), Incubus 
  wrote: 
  
 >On 2019-10-14, The Todal  wrote: 
 >> On 14/10/2019 14:31, Incubus wrote: 
 >>> On 2019-10-14, The Todal  wrote: 
 >>>> On 14/10/2019 13:52, Incubus wrote: 
 >>>>> On 2019-10-14, The Natural Philosopher  wrote: 
 >>>>>> On 14/10/2019 11:36, Incubus wrote: 
 >>>>>>> On 2019-10-14, The Todal  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>> On 14/10/2019 10:54, Incubus wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>> On 2019-10-13, nightjar  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2019 16:43, tim... wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>>> "nightjar"  wrote in message 
 >>>>>>>>>>> news:YMCdnZDnRYaYlT7AnZ2dnUU78I_NnZ2d@giganews.com... 
 >>>>>>>>>> ... 
 >>>>>>>>>>>> Of greater influence are probably dissatisfaction with the mess 
 that 
 >>>>>>>>>>>> the Brexiteers have made of the process so far 
 >>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>>> ITYF it was a Remainer who made a mess of the process 
 >>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>> Mrs May achieved a reasonable deal that the EU could live with. It 
 was 
 >>>>>>>>>> the extreme Brexiteers who stopped that deal getting through 
 parliament. 
 >>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>> The deal was an absolute turd but you will find that Remainers in 
 Parliament 
 >>>>>>>>> also voted it down. 
 >>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> The deal was actually an excellent one, and it is still the only 
 >>>>>>>> alternative to a no-deal and there's certainly a chance that MPs 
 will 
 >>>>>>>> approve it now they realise that it's this deal or no deal. 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> If you think the deal was excellent then you haven't understood it. 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>> Or alternatively he realises it is even better than being in the EU, 
 for 
 >>>>>> the EU, and hates Britain enough to think that is good. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> So "absolute turd"? Will you feel betrayed? Will you march on the 
 >>>>>>>> streets to demand that Boris resigns, after we leave the EU with 
 Theresa 
 >>>>>>>> May's deal? 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> Honestly? 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> It depends on what is renegotiated.  The most dangerous aspect was 
 the 
 >>>>>>> "backstop". 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>> The backstop meant 'you can never leave' 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> You have read it and understood it.  As you said, either Todal hasn't 
 or 
 he 
 >>>>> has and wants the EU to remain as overlords for perpetuity. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>> 
 >>>> Neither of you has understood it. The backstop means that once you have 
 >>>> devised a technological solution to regulating the border without having 
 >>>> a hard border, the backstop will become irrelevant and the break from 
 >>>> the EU will be complete. 
 >>> 
 >>> So you haven't properly read it then. 
 >>> 
 >>> Thank you for clarifying. 
 >>> 
 >> 
 >> Bluffing won't get you anywhere. You keep evading the question I've 
 >> asked you. If the Theresa May withdrawal agreement is voted through the 
 >> Commons and becomes law, will you accept it and move on with your life 
 >> or will you spend your life whingeing and moaning that it was a BRINO 
 >> and campaigning for a no-deal Brexit? 
 > 
 >It depends what the amendments are.  If the backstop is removed or amended 
 so 
 >that it doesn't negate the advantages of leaving for perpetuity and the main 
 >agreement altered to promote free trade without the serious drawbacks 
 currently 
 >therein, I could accept it.  I wouldn't accept it in its current form.  I 
 think 
 >I have made that clear. 
 > 
 >> A "let's wait and see" is the sort of evasion you condemn when it comes 
 >> from the Labour Party. 
 > 
 >We don't know what the agreement will be after the current negotiations. 
 There 
 >is nothing evasive about refusing to confirm support for something when we 
 >don't know what it is.  The clarification I have given you above is 
 something 
 I 
 >have previously stated. 
  
 i'm unclear...are you calling him a liar, an idiot..or both> 
  
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