XPost: uk.politics.misc, uk.d-i-y, uk.radio.amateur 
 From: tims_new_home@yahoo.com 
  
 "Pamela"  wrote in message 
 news:XnsAAE8486A5C6737B93@81.171.92.183... 
 > On 23:45  13 Oct 2019, roger@hayter.org (Roger Hayter) wrote: 
 > 
 >> Pamela  wrote: 
 >> 
 >>> On 19:07  13 Oct 2019, Norman Wells  wrote: 
 >>> 
 >>> > On 13/10/2019 17:16, Pamela wrote: 
 >>> >> On 13:49  13 Oct 2019, "Dave Plowman (News)"  
 >>> >> wrote: 
 >>> >> 
 >>> >>> In article <0001HW.23533798000B6E74700000BBC2EF@news.giganews.com>, 
 >>> >>>     Keema's Nan  wrote: 
 >>> >>>>> I see your mistake. You think the referendum was a football match 
 >>> >>>>> with winner takes all. In fact, the vote was more or less evenly 
 >>> >>>>> split and MPs will take that into account. 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>>> Ok, but not quite evenly split though, was it? 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>> No. It was approximately 1/3rd. 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>>>> 
 >>> >>>>> 
 >>> >>>>> A second referendum will serve to show Parliament if the original 
 >>> >>>>> split has been preserved after voters have seen what Brexit 
 >>> >>>>> really looks like. 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>>> No one can see what Brexit looks like until they have experienced 
 >>> >>>> it. 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>> Which could be too late for many jobs based on free trade with the 
 >>> >>> EU. 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>>> All we have, is what bullshitters tell us Brexit will be like. 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>> I certainly remember being told how easy it would be to get a new 
 >>> >>> deal with the EU giving us all we wanted. Since they need us more 
 >>> >>> than we need them. 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>>> If we are allowed a few years of Brexit and then have a referendum 
 >>> >>>> based on 'stay out' or 're-join', that would be sensible. But 
 >>> >>>> common sense is what the remain-filled UK establishment do not 
 >>> >>>> possess. 
 >>> >>> 
 >>> >>> The nest few years will be spend sorting out just what sort of deal 
 >>> >>> we end up with in detail. Any agreement now is simply a starting 
 >>> >>> point. And if we leave without one, those negotiations will simply 
 >>> >>> take longer. A lot longer. 
 >>> >> 
 >>> >> How true. 
 >>> >> 
 >>> >> In fact, for many leavers, Brexit has become an end it itself. 
 >>> >> 
 >>> >> Brexit serves no useful purpose.  However, fanatical leavers have 
 >>> >> nailed their colours to its mast and now insist we leave to satisfy 
 >>> >> their sense of pride. 
 >>> >> 
 >>> >> Boris's "Let's get Brexit done" is based on the totally false 
 >>> >> premise that it will be over when we leave. 
 >>> > 
 >>> > It's actually drawing a line that will enable discussions on trade, 
 >>> > which you seem concerned about, actually to start.  We haven't had 
 >>> > *any* so far.  We can't until we have left. 
 >>> 
 >>> What a mess. 
 >> 
 >> I don't think that particular part of it is a mess at all. International 
 >> discussions and hugely disruptive changes of status are always going to 
 >> take a long time. 
 > 
 > The agreements required after Brexit are exceptional by any standards and 
 > the requirement for a quick resolution is more pressing than usual in such 
 > negotiations. 
 > 
 >> And it seems obvious to me that the EU cannot 
 >> negotiate new trade terms with us until we have actually left; after 
 >> all, it is now clear to everyone, 
 > 
 > The fact it's obvious doesn't make it desirable nor acceptable.  It's a 
 > mess because Boris has created an expectation that we can "Get Brexit 
 > done" by simply leaving on the 31st and then letting everything else flow 
 > effortlessly afterwards.  Ha ha.  Leaving is just a formality compared to 
 > the real difficulties which start then. 
  
 Oh come on 
  
 it was an unmitigated mess long before Boris stepped in. 
  
 tim 
  
 > 
 > 
  
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