XPost: uk.radio.amateur, uk.politics.misc, uk.d-i-y 
 From: steve@walker-family.me.uk 
  
 On 14/10/2019 11:50, The Todal wrote: 
 > On 14/10/2019 11:36, Incubus wrote: 
 >> On 2019-10-14, The Todal  wrote: 
 >>> On 14/10/2019 10:54, Incubus wrote: 
 >>>> On 2019-10-13, nightjar  wrote: 
 >>>>> On 13/10/2019 16:43, tim... wrote: 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> "nightjar"  wrote in message 
 >>>>>> news:YMCdnZDnRYaYlT7AnZ2dnUU78I_NnZ2d@giganews.com... 
 >>>>> ... 
 >>>>>>> Of greater influence are probably dissatisfaction with the mess that 
 >>>>>>> the Brexiteers have made of the process so far 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> ITYF it was a Remainer who made a mess of the process 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> Mrs May achieved a reasonable deal that the EU could live with. It was 
 >>>>> the extreme Brexiteers who stopped that deal getting through 
 >>>>> parliament. 
 >>>> 
 >>>> The deal was an absolute turd but you will find that Remainers in 
 >>>> Parliament 
 >>>> also voted it down. 
 >>>> 
 >>> 
 >>> The deal was actually an excellent one, and it is still the only 
 >>> alternative to a no-deal and there's certainly a chance that MPs will 
 >>> approve it now they realise that it's this deal or no deal. 
 >> 
 >> If you think the deal was excellent then you haven't understood it. 
 > 
 > Er... if you think the deal was a turd, then you haven't understood it. 
 > 
 > I think we've all understood it. It was a carefully crafted deal which 
 > offered a sensible way forward and had the approval of many MPs. 
 > 
 > Unfortunately Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Mogg, scheming to achieve 
 > power, lied to the Commons and made them believe that if we "stood up" 
 > to the EU and made more threats, we could achieve an even better deal. 
 > Having achieved power, Boris has tried to use threats and bullying and 
 > has achieved precisely nothing. A slight re-wording of the backstop 
 > arrangement which still "needs more work" if it is to be acceptable to 
 > the EU. For "needs more work" you can substitute "returns to the 
 > previous version". 
 > 
 >> 
 >>> So "absolute turd"? Will you feel betrayed? Will you march on the 
 >>> streets to demand that Boris resigns, after we leave the EU with Theresa 
 >>> May's deal? 
 >>> 
 >>> Honestly? 
 >> 
 >> It depends on what is renegotiated.€€ The most dangerous aspect was the 
 >> "backstop". 
 >> 
 > 
 > The backstop is fine. 
  
 What, with no way to unilaterally leave? Would you sign up to an 
 employment contract that gave your employer a veto over you ever leaving 
 that job ... even at retirement age? 
  
 > Will you march on the streets behind Nigel Farage? 
 > Or just accept the democratic decision of our Parliament?€€ Are you and 
 > Nigel the will of the people, or is Parliament the will of the people? 
  
 The people were clearly told at the time of the referendum that a vote 
 for leave was a vote to leave the EU in its entirety - no SM, no CU, no 
 tie-ins to EU institutions, no requirement to adhere to EU laws, 
 regulations, etc., no FoM. The people were told that voting to leave 
 would result in immediate collapse of the economy, immediate and massive 
 loss of jobs and many more catastrophes. The people still voted leave. 
  
 Only once the result was known, did remainer MPs introduce the concept 
 of soft or hard Brexit and have been pushing ever since for BRINO. 
  
 SteveW 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)