XPost: uk.radio.amateur, uk.politics.misc, uk.d-i-y 
 From: abelard3@abelard.org 
  
 On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 16:20:48 -0000 (UTC), Incubus 
  wrote: 
  
 >On 2019-10-14, abelard  wrote: 
 >> On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 15:38:28 -0000 (UTC), Incubus 
 >> wrote: 
 >> 
 >>>On 2019-10-14, The Todal  wrote: 
 >>>> On 14/10/2019 14:31, Incubus wrote: 
 >>>>> On 2019-10-14, The Todal  wrote: 
 >>>>>> On 14/10/2019 13:52, Incubus wrote: 
 >>>>>>> On 2019-10-14, The Natural Philosopher  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>> On 14/10/2019 11:36, Incubus wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>> On 2019-10-14, The Todal  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>>> On 14/10/2019 10:54, Incubus wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>>>> On 2019-10-13, nightjar  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>>>>> On 13/10/2019 16:43, tim... wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>>>>> "nightjar"  wrote in message 
 >>>>>>>>>>>>> news:YMCdnZDnRYaYlT7AnZ2dnUU78I_NnZ2d@giganews.com... 
 >>>>>>>>>>>> ... 
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of greater influence are probably dissatisfaction with the 
 mess 
 that 
 >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Brexiteers have made of the process so far 
 >>>>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>>>>> ITYF it was a Remainer who made a mess of the process 
 >>>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mrs May achieved a reasonable deal that the EU could live with. 
 It was 
 >>>>>>>>>>>> the extreme Brexiteers who stopped that deal getting through 
 parliament. 
 >>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>>> The deal was an absolute turd but you will find that Remainers in 
 Parliament 
 >>>>>>>>>>> also voted it down. 
 >>>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>> The deal was actually an excellent one, and it is still the only 
 >>>>>>>>>> alternative to a no-deal and there's certainly a chance that MPs 
 will 
 >>>>>>>>>> approve it now they realise that it's this deal or no deal. 
 >>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>> If you think the deal was excellent then you haven't understood it. 
 >>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> Or alternatively he realises it is even better than being in the EU, 
 for 
 >>>>>>>> the EU, and hates Britain enough to think that is good. 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>> So "absolute turd"? Will you feel betrayed? Will you march on the 
 >>>>>>>>>> streets to demand that Boris resigns, after we leave the EU with 
 Theresa 
 >>>>>>>>>> May's deal? 
 >>>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>>> Honestly? 
 >>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>> It depends on what is renegotiated.  The most dangerous aspect was 
 the 
 >>>>>>>>> "backstop". 
 >>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> The backstop meant 'you can never leave' 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> You have read it and understood it.  As you said, either Todal hasn't 
 or he 
 >>>>>>> has and wants the EU to remain as overlords for perpetuity. 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> Neither of you has understood it. The backstop means that once you 
 have 
 >>>>>> devised a technological solution to regulating the border without 
 having 
 >>>>>> a hard border, the backstop will become irrelevant and the break from 
 >>>>>> the EU will be complete. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> So you haven't properly read it then. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> Thank you for clarifying. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>> 
 >>>> Bluffing won't get you anywhere. You keep evading the question I've 
 >>>> asked you. If the Theresa May withdrawal agreement is voted through the 
 >>>> Commons and becomes law, will you accept it and move on with your life 
 >>>> or will you spend your life whingeing and moaning that it was a BRINO 
 >>>> and campaigning for a no-deal Brexit? 
 >>> 
 >>>It depends what the amendments are.  If the backstop is removed or amended 
 so 
 >>>that it doesn't negate the advantages of leaving for perpetuity and the 
 main 
 >>>agreement altered to promote free trade without the serious drawbacks 
 currently 
 >>>therein, I could accept it.  I wouldn't accept it in its current form.  I 
 think 
 >>>I have made that clear. 
 >>> 
 >>>> A "let's wait and see" is the sort of evasion you condemn when it comes 
 >>>> from the Labour Party. 
 >>> 
 >>>We don't know what the agreement will be after the current negotiations. 
 There 
 >>>is nothing evasive about refusing to confirm support for something when we 
 >>>don't know what it is.  The clarification I have given you above is 
 something I 
 >>>have previously stated. 
 >> 
 >> i'm unclear...are you calling him a liar, an idiot..or both> 
 > 
 >I'm calling him a Momentum supporter. 
 > 
 >I hope that clarifies :) 
  
 very clear thanx! 
  
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