XPost: uk.politics.misc, uk.d-i-y, uk.radio.amateur 
 From: jkb675@gmail.com 
  
 "JNugent"  wrote in message 
 news:h0hsn4FolpiU2@mid.individual.net... 
 > On 13/10/2019 19:35, ZakJames wrote: 
 >> 
 >> 
 >> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
 >> news:h0gko1Fglo0U1@mid.individual.net... 
 >>> On 13/10/2019 02:25, ZakJames wrote: 
 >>>> 
 >>>> 
 >>>> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
 >>>> news:h0f9f4F86o7U1@mid.individual.net... 
 >>>>> On 12/10/2019 23:47, ZakJames wrote: 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
 >>>>>> news:h0f0boF6deiU1@mid.individual.net... 
 >>>>>>> On 12/10/2019 16:35, tim... wrote: 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
 >>>>>>>> news:5801d4258edave@davenoise.co.uk... 
 >>>>>>>>> In article , 
 >>>>>>>>>   Cursitor Doom  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>>> I still have a legitimate interest, mate. And if there's another 
 >>>>>>>>>> Referendum I'll be voting in it again, same as before, just like 
 >>>>>>>>>> everyone else who voted Leave - plus not a few former Remainers 
 >>>>>>>>>> who've 
 >>>>>>>>>> seen the light over the last 3 years. 
 >>>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>> Oddly, most the polls seem to show the opposite has happened. 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> very marginally 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> and to less than the extent that Remain was in the lead before the 
 >>>>>>>> last vote 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> and you know what campaigning did to that lead. 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>>> Wonder what the average UK voter feels about those who have fled 
 >>>>>>>>> the 
 >>>>>>>>> country to avoid paying taxes being allowed to vote? 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> I for one think that they've got a bloody cheek complaining about 
 >>>>>>>> being disenfranchised - they chose to be disenfranchised. 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> That's not as straightforward as some people seem to think. 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> An ex-pat Brit living in (say) Spain might have a vote in local 
 >>>>>>> elections in their area of residence, but unless they take pout 
 >>>>>>> Spanish citizenship they won't be allowed to vote in Spain's 
 >>>>>>> parliamantary elections (and quite right too). 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> But unless they're allowed to vote in UK Parliamentary elections - 
 >>>>>>> for life - they are disenfranchised from having any say in the 
 >>>>>>> government of anywhere. And that cannot be right. They are not 
 >>>>>>> second-class people who should have fewer rights than others. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> That€€€s always been the case with those who choose not 
 >>>>>> to take up citizenship in the place they choose to move 
 >>>>>> to. They are in fact second class people by that choice 
 >>>>>> and rightly so imo. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> "That's always been the case". 
 >>>> 
 >>>>> But it shouldn't be. 
 >>>> 
 >>>> That€€€s very arguable. 
 >>>> 
 >>>>> There is no case to be made for disenfranchising anyone. 
 >>>> 
 >>>> There is for those who choose to be in a particular country 
 >>>> for a while but who have no intention of staying there forever. 
 >>>> Why should those who choose to move to say Spain for the 
 >>>> lower prices and better weather have any say on how that 
 >>>> country is run ?  Let alone on more important issues like 
 >>>> whether the Basque separatists should be allowed to have 
 >>>> their own country or be part of the EU ? 
 >>>> 
 >>>>> What is the principled difference between a UK citizen who works 
 >>>>> abroad (eg, a Foreign Office employee) and a UK citizen who retires 
 >>>>> abroad? 
 >>>> 
 >>>> Nothing with regard to their right to vote in the UK is concerned 
 >>>> unless they never plan to return to the UK again. But neither should 
 >>>> have any say in how the country they are working in or have retired 
 >>>> to does things either imo. Both are free to decide if how that country 
 >>>> does things is to their liking, but not free to vote on any changes 
 >>>> that they would like to see there. 
 >> 
 >>> That's your opinion. 
 >> 
 >> That€€€s why I said imo. 
 >> 
 >>> The idea of a tax-paying, law-abiding, citizen who isn't allowed to vote 
 >>> anywhere in the world 
 >> 
 >> That€€€s hardly ever the case, All modern first and 
 >> most second world countrys allow their citizens 
 >> to vote when they are out of their country. 
 >> 
 >>> must surely be anathema to anyone correctly considering the situation. 
 >> 
 >> The actual situation is that they can still 
 >> vote in their native country unless they 
 >> are in a foreign jail in the case of some 
 >> countrys that don€€€t allow felons to vote. 
 >> 
 >>> Are you sure you aren't just fearful of how most of them would vote? 
 >> 
 >> Quite sure. Most who are out of their country don€€€t 
 >> bother to vote because more effort is required to do that. 
 >> 
 >>>> I don€€€t even agree with say poms who choose to migrate to somewhere 
 >>>> like Australia or NZ being able to proclaim that those places should do 
 >>>> things the way the UK does things benefits or politics wise either. 
 >> 
 >>> Neither do I. And that has [precisely nothing whatever to do with the 
 >>> issue of whether they should be denied a vote. 
 >> 
 >> They arent in fact denied a vote at all. They are 
 >> free to vote in UK elections for at least 15 years, 
  
 > ..whereas it should be for life (or until they renounce UK citizenship). 
  
 I assume that the reason for the 15 years is that plenty of the poms 
 never bothered to renounce UK citizenship or get naturalised in the 
 country they chose to migrate to. That has changed a bit lately now 
 that some will ship those who have been involved in crime back to 
 the UK again. That didn€€€t used to happen previously. 
  
 Now that some countries have tightened up on who can migrate 
 to their country, some poms have been told that they never had 
 any right to migrate and are asked to leave now too. 
  
 >>>> They should decide if they like the way things are done before they 
 >>>> migrate to another country, not try to change them after they have 
 >>>> migrated. 
 >> 
 >>> Quite so, though of course, it has nothing to do with the topic. 
 >> 
 >> Wrong. 
 >> 
 >>>>>>> Because UK Parliamentary representation is so tied to local 
 >>>>>>> geography, ex-pats need to be either (a) limited to a vote as though 
 >>>>>>> still living at their last UK address (which they might even still 
 >>>>>>> own), or (b) placed within a new non-geographical constituency for 
 >>>>>>> British citizens not currently resident in the UK. There would 
 >>>>>>> probably have to be a multiplicity of those because there are 
 >>>>>>> millions of ex-pats. These constituencies could even be based on 
 >>>>>>> broad regions of the UK, each with an electorate size of the target 
 >>>>>>> average size as aimed for by the Boundary Commission and 
 >>>>>>> equivalents. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> I did notice that Italians emigrants are allowed to vote in Italian 
 >>>>>> elections. 
  
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