XPost: uk.politics.misc, uk.d-i-y, uk.radio.amateur 
 From: jenningsltd@fastmail.fm 
  
 On 13/10/2019 19:35, ZakJames wrote: 
 > 
 > 
 > "JNugent"  wrote in message 
 > news:h0gko1Fglo0U1@mid.individual.net... 
 >> On 13/10/2019 02:25, ZakJames wrote: 
 >>> 
 >>> 
 >>> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
 >>> news:h0f9f4F86o7U1@mid.individual.net... 
 >>>> On 12/10/2019 23:47, ZakJames wrote: 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
 >>>>> news:h0f0boF6deiU1@mid.individual.net... 
 >>>>>> On 12/10/2019 16:35, tim... wrote: 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
 >>>>>>> news:5801d4258edave@davenoise.co.uk... 
 >>>>>>>> In article , 
 >>>>>>>> €€ Cursitor Doom  wrote: 
 >>>>>>>>> I still have a legitimate interest, mate. And if there's another 
 >>>>>>>>> Referendum I'll be voting in it again, same as before, just like 
 >>>>>>>>> everyone else who voted Leave - plus not a few former Remainers 
 >>>>>>>>> who've 
 >>>>>>>>> seen the light over the last 3 years. 
 >>>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> Oddly, most the polls seem to show the opposite has happened. 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> very marginally 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> and to less than the extent that Remain was in the lead before 
 >>>>>>> the last vote 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> and you know what campaigning did to that lead. 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>>> Wonder what the average UK voter feels about those who have fled 
 >>>>>>>> the 
 >>>>>>>> country to avoid paying taxes being allowed to vote? 
 >>>>>>> 
 >>>>>>> I for one think that they've got a bloody cheek complaining about 
 >>>>>>> being disenfranchised - they chose to be disenfranchised. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> That's not as straightforward as some people seem to think. 
 >>>>>> 
 >>>>>> An ex-pat Brit living in (say) Spain might have a vote in local 
 >>>>>> elections in their area of residence, but unless they take pout 
 >>>>>> Spanish citizenship they won't be allowed to vote in Spain's 
 >>>>>> parliamantary elections (and quite right too). 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>>> But unless they're allowed to vote in UK Parliamentary elections - 
 >>>>>> for life - they are disenfranchised from having any say in the 
 >>>>>> government of anywhere. And that cannot be right. They are not 
 >>>>>> second-class people who should have fewer rights than others. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> That€€€s always been the case with those who choose not 
 >>>>> to take up citizenship in the place they choose to move 
 >>>>> to. They are in fact second class people by that choice 
 >>>>> and rightly so imo. 
 >>>> 
 >>>> "That's always been the case". 
 >>> 
 >>>> But it shouldn't be. 
 >>> 
 >>> That€€€s very arguable. 
 >>> 
 >>>> There is no case to be made for disenfranchising anyone. 
 >>> 
 >>> There is for those who choose to be in a particular country 
 >>> for a while but who have no intention of staying there forever. 
 >>> Why should those who choose to move to say Spain for the 
 >>> lower prices and better weather have any say on how that 
 >>> country is run ?€€ Let alone on more important issues like 
 >>> whether the Basque separatists should be allowed to have 
 >>> their own country or be part of the EU ? 
 >>> 
 >>>> What is the principled difference between a UK citizen who works 
 >>>> abroad (eg, a Foreign Office employee) and a UK citizen who retires 
 >>>> abroad? 
 >>> 
 >>> Nothing with regard to their right to vote in the UK is concerned 
 >>> unless they never plan to return to the UK again. But neither should 
 >>> have any say in how the country they are working in or have retired 
 >>> to does things either imo. Both are free to decide if how that country 
 >>> does things is to their liking, but not free to vote on any changes 
 >>> that they would like to see there. 
 > 
 >> That's your opinion. 
 > 
 > That€€€s why I said imo. 
 > 
 >> The idea of a tax-paying, law-abiding, citizen who isn't allowed to 
 >> vote anywhere in the world 
 > 
 > That€€€s hardly ever the case, All modern first and 
 > most second world countrys allow their citizens 
 > to vote when they are out of their country. 
 > 
 >> must surely be anathema to anyone correctly considering the situation. 
 > 
 > The actual situation is that they can still 
 > vote in their native country unless they 
 > are in a foreign jail in the case of some 
 > countrys that don€€€t allow felons to vote. 
 > 
 >> Are you sure you aren't just fearful of how most of them would vote? 
 > 
 > Quite sure. Most who are out of their country don€€€t 
 > bother to vote because more effort is required to do that. 
 > 
 >>> I don€€€t even agree with say poms who choose to migrate to somewhere 
 >>> like Australia or NZ being able to proclaim that those places should do 
 >>> things the way the UK does things benefits or politics wise either. 
 > 
 >> Neither do I. And that has [precisely nothing whatever to do with the 
 >> issue of whether they should be denied a vote. 
 > 
 > They arent in fact denied a vote at all. They are 
 > free to vote in UK elections for at least 15 years, 
  
 ..whereas it should be for life (or until they renounce UK citizenship). 
  
 >>> They should decide if they like the way things are done before they 
 >>> migrate to another country, not try to change them after they have 
 >>> migrated. 
 > 
 >> Quite so, though of course, it has nothing to do with the topic. 
 > 
 > Wrong. 
 > 
 >>>>>> Because UK Parliamentary representation is so tied to local 
 >>>>>> geography, ex-pats need to be either (a) limited to a vote as 
 >>>>>> though still living at their last UK address (which they might 
 >>>>>> even still own), or (b) placed within a new non-geographical 
 >>>>>> constituency for British citizens not currently resident in the 
 >>>>>> UK. There would probably have to be a multiplicity of those 
 >>>>>> because there are millions of ex-pats. These constituencies could 
 >>>>>> even be based on broad regions of the UK, each with an electorate 
 >>>>>> size of the target average size as aimed for by the Boundary 
 >>>>>> Commission and equivalents. 
 >>>>> 
 >>>>> I did notice that Italians emigrants are allowed to vote in Italian 
 >>>>> elections. 
 >>>>> Not sure what happens about which constituency they get to vote in. 
 >>> 
 >>>> Perhaps we (the UK) should make enquiries. 
 >>> 
 >>> There isnt likely to be any very satisfactory way of doing that. 
 >>> Even say being allowed to vote in the constituency that they 
 >>> had previously lived in doesn€€€t make a lot of sense given 
 >>> that as migrants they clearly chose to leave there and with 
 >>> such tiny constituencies as the UK has, it could just have 
 >>> been where there happened to be an affordable place to 
 >>> buy or rent that they happened to find appealing etc or 
 >>> a job that happened to have a vacancy at the time. 
 >> 
 >> That's a view and it has some legitimacy. 
 >> 
  
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