XPost: alt.law-enforcement, alt.thebird.copwatch, alt.true-crime 
 From: central222@hotmail.com 
  
 Steve Furbish wrote: 
 > 
 > "Morf"  wrote in message 
  
 > > Typically you dismiss the majority as tainted, by virtue of it coming 
 > > from an arrestee. 
 > 
 > Typically, you refuse to admit that there is more than a bit of legitimacy 
 > in that argument. 
  
 Typically, you choose the unconstitutional method of denial of 
 complaints based 
 on arrest status. 
  
 > Not all people subscribe to the theory that the best 
 > defense is a good offense, but I doubt that few who read this thread have 
 > never seen an example of that tact in practice? In fact, the more familiar 
 > an individual is with the term "plea bargain" the more likely they might be 
 > to want a few extra chips in their pocket come court day. 
  
 Plea bargains are blackmail. 
  
 > 
 > > This is precisely why cops shouldn't be allowed to investigate 
 > > complaints against cops. 
 > 
 > They're not - if we're talking about criminal acts. Cops  get trials by 
 jury 
 > just like everyone else. 
  
 We aren't and you know it. The cops never get a trial because morons 
 like you won't 
 arrest them unless the complainant is a saint with absolute proof. 
  
 Even then, cops will blackmail and intimidate their way out of these 
 complaints too. 
  
 > But what you want is some citizen kangaroo court 
 > consisting of like-minded malcontents with an axe to grind or a favor 
 > sought. 
  
 Cops don't have an axe to grind? 
  
 You are incredibly ignorant. 
  
 >You want minor beefs handled like major crimes, all the while 
 > knowing that can't happen in any type of forum that is fair to both sides 
 of 
 > the issue. 
  
 I want all complaints handled exactly the same without prejudice.(your 
 beliefs 
 that cops are being accused simply for doing theiir jobs) 
  
 > 
 > > presumption of self-benefit of the arrestees, by cops, is used by 
 > > cops to violate 
 > > rights and step outside the law to get the dirtbag. 
 > 
 > If it were the ambition of all cops to step outside the law to punish all 
 > dirtbags, you'd never see the light of day. 
  
 Now you argue that I claim all cops. 
  
 Many people are in prison for daring to complain about cops. 
  
 Many are released every year when the fake evidence is uncovered. 
  
 >The fact of the matter is, 
 > however, most cops try to do an honest job. 
  
 Cops doing an honest job has no bearing on why cops dismiss complaints 
 against 
 cops but arrest non cops on identical complaints every day. 
  
 >And while plodding along doing 
 > their jobs they all too frequently are subjected to the bullshit taunts of 
 > know-nothing malcontents like you. 
  
 You are the ignorant defender of accused cops, not me. 
  
 > > Self policing fosters corruption and abuse. 
 > 
 > Few cops that I know consider investigations by the brass or IA as being 
 > "self-policed". It only sounds good to you copwatch cronies. 
  
 Only because most cops live in denial like you. 
  
 > > > Or to the lack of substance in most allegations of that type. 
 > > 
 > > Cops arrest people on far less substantiation every day, and you know 
 > > it. 
 > 
 > I'm trying to think of one good (or even one not-so-good) reason for a cop 
 > to falsely accuse an innocent person of a crime (or a traffic violation, if 
 > we want to stay on topic)? I can't come up with one. The inverse, however, 
 > is glaringly not true. 
  
  
 Bullshit. Cops plant evidence, and frame people wholesale. 
  
 I guess these cops that are caught just do it for kicks? 
  
 Cops arrest families and friends to force their target into submission. 
  
 That's how I became a copwatcher, genius. 
  
 I speak from first hand experience. 
  
 > 
 > > > While it might seem like there are some strong 
 > > > motivations for police brass to rubber stamp complaints on officers 
 that 
 > > > just isn't true for the most part and it totally ignores the issue of 
 > > > motivation on the part of those filing the complaints as well. You know 
 > that 
 > > > bad apples rarely bob to the surface just once, yet you're perfectly 
 > willing 
 > > > to ignore the fact that in the vast majority of complaints it's much 
 > more 
 > > > likely that the complainer will have many more arrest than the cop will 
 > have 
 > > > complaints in his jacket. 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Not much experience with bad cops, Steve? 
 > 
 > Very little indeed. 
  
 Because you can't see bad in cops. 
  
 > > The facts are simple. 
 > > 
 > > Department after department dismiss complaints wholesale. 
 > 
 > You see, that is NOT a fact - it's an allegation. That you apparently don't 
 > know the difference might speak to the source of your cluelessness? 
  
 No, it is a fact. It is your opinion that it isn't. 
  
 > > Then they pay out settlement after settlement, while claiming nuisance 
 > > settlements 
 > > all the way to the bank. 
 > 
 > That's a fact. It is indeed easier for an insurance underwriter to pay you 
 a 
 > few thousand to drop things then to do the right thing and fight you in 
 > court. It's rarely a call that's left to the law enforcement agency and if 
 > it were you'd see fewer and fewer settlements. 
  
 Nuisance settlements should be outlawed. 
  
 Cops must be forced to defend every case in court. 
  
 You pay the settlement and you ar guilty. Just like any plea bargain. 
  
 > > The NYPD has paid out a hundred million dollars, while denying every 
 > > last claim against them. 
 > > 
 > > They have been investigated by special commissions that found systematic 
 > > abuses, have paid 
 > > out settlement after settlement, but the denial continues. 
 > > 
 > > Denying a person equal treatment under the law because he is an arrestee 
 > > is a fascist tactic. 
 > > 
 > > Many complaints result in the person complaining being arrested after 
 > > complaining. 
 > > 
 > > This should raise a red flag immediately. 
 > 
 > Agreed. There's nothing worse than a criminal who feels immune because they 
 > have a pending lawsuit. I'm sure you've never seen a person so emboldened 
 > though, have you? 
  
 If seen death threats harassment and wrongful arrests to cover the cops 
 actions 
 and discourage those who speak out. 
  
 > > But it's business as usual. 
 > 
 > It's always business as usual. Every accusation you make towards law 
 > enforcement could certainly be made right back at you. 
  
 But it isn't. The cops dismiss the complaints and arrest the complainer. 
  
 > You have a banner to 
 > follow as evidenced by your longevity in the cophater - I mean - copwatch 
 > group. It's no surprise that you'll never offer that benefit of doubt that 
 > you yourself would like to see... 
  
 Denying people recourse against dirty cops breeds vigilanteism. 
  
 But you aren't interested in saving cops lives, only their power. 
  
 Your beliefs cause cops to die. 
  
 But you will just deny it, as always. 
 > 
 > Steve 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)