XPost: alt.thebird.copwatch, alt.law-enforcement, alt.true-crime 
 XPost: alt.california 
 From: central222@hotmail.com 
  
 Pagan wrote: 
 > 
 > "Morf"  wrote in message 
 > news:40918034.44CC@hotmail.com... 
 > > Pagan wrote: 
 > > > 
 > > > "Morf"  wrote in message 
 > > > news:40902233.687E@hotmail.com... 
 >  
 > > > You seem to think only cops and gangs are in ghettos.  Did you forget 
 > there 
 > > > are regular people there, too, that don't want to sell or do drugs, 
 > rape, 
 > > > rob, murder, or otherwise hurt anybody, and that they are the only real 
 > > > targets of the gangs? 
 > > 
 > > Not at all. I realize that fully. 
 > > 
 > > My point was that gangs or individuals will retalliate against people or 
 > > cops 
 > > as a whole. For example a gang may attack the family of their target for 
 > > the 
 > > actions of another. Cops sometimes act similarly, which may well have 
 > > created 
 > > many gangs. Gangs are group self defense. Safety in numbers applies to 
 > > cops as 
 > > well. Why wouldn't it? 
 > 
 > So the gangs are there for self defense?  From whom?  And as a self defense 
 > group, why do they get in cars loaded with weapons, drive away from their 
 > home, and shoot other people? 
  
 It's a drug war that you cops started. They merely reflect your 
 escalation. 
  
 They are your enemy, just as you are theirs. 
  
 You both are the enemies of peac-loving people. 
  
 > 
 > > Tom's statement that the kid was retalliating for the actions of any cop 
 > > to pay 
 > > for a wrong done to him isn't disproved by ranting about lunatical 
 > > thought processes. 
 > > 
 > > Cops who have never done anything wrong often are punished for the 
 > > actions of some 
 > > earlier encounter with the punisher. 
 > > 
 > > Baghdad or Harlem, both sides contain extremists, that kill the innocent 
 > > and blame 
 > > the other gangs/insurgents/coalitions for the civilian casualties. 
 > > 
 > > The outcome in Baghdad was obvious since we sent the NYPD to train the 
 > > Iraqi cops. 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > > Or do you just not consider regular people worth 
 > > > worrying about? 
 > > 
 > > It is you, who are the ones who don't consider the neutral ghetto 
 > > dwellers. 
 > 
 > Is that so?  Then perhaps you can explain just why the cops go into the 
 > ghetto in the first place. 
  
 You misunderstand. The cops use different tactics in the ghetto that 
 often 
 causes the innocent to suffer. Imported cops would never have shootouts 
 on 
 their own streets where they live. 
  
 They shoot up the ghetto then export themselves back to copland. 
  
 >  After all, who the hell wants to go into a 
 > toilet part of town when you don't have to? 
  
 Stay the hell out. Let enforcement be done by the natives. 
  
 > > I work to stop the killings/crimes on both sides. 
 > > 
 > > Cops work to reduce killing by killing or other means. 
 > > 
 > > A futile effort at best. It is self defeating. 
 > > 
 > > The perception remains. Street killings from cops or gangs have the 
 > > exact same 
 > > ultimate effect on the neutrak observer. 
 > > 
 > > When an innocent dies, the ghetto dwellers don't care which side killed 
 > > their family. 
 > > 
 > > They want the war stopped. 
 > 
 > Do they?  What do they do to stop it? 
  
 they live in fear like all war torn refugees being trampled by war 
 driven killers. 
  
 > > I want the war stopped. 
 > > 
 > > Do you think I haven't stopped or reported crimes by non-cops? 
 > 
 > It would make my day if you said you did. 
  
 I have, and will continue to do so. 
  
 I don't support criminal activity by either side. 
  
 Or violence. 
  
 > > You must be careful when reporting crimes though, in the ghetto. 
 > > 
 > > Cops may target you by association to the criminal by location, and the 
 > > gangs 
 > > may retalliate as well. 
 > > 
 > > > > > Try seeking help on your own, before they come take you away you 
 > freakin 
 > > > > > nutjob! 
 > > > > 
 > > > > Stop trying to convince cops that it won't happen. 
 > > > 
 > > > Who said it won't happen? 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > CPK did right up above. 
 > > 
 > > Here's the quote: 
 > > 
 > > "Only a lunatic would make such an illogical and ludicrous statement." 
 > > 
 > > The statement was: 
 > > 
 > > "as I stated before, it would make NO difference which cop dies for the 
 > > actions of another cop." 
 > > 
 > > Tom stated his hypothesis of a possible motive to the cop shooting. 
 > 
 > Tommy's so-called hypothesis is based purely on his short circuited brain. 
 > If a cop tripped on a rock and got a knot on his head, he'd claim an 
 > anti-cop set that rock there to punish him. 
  
 Very true that Tom thinks differently than most, but his point was that 
 cop 
 killers don't care which cop it is. 
  
 They share the same colors,(uniforms) and swear allegience to each 
 other. 
  
 > > CPK bugged out calling him a loon for his premise, but offered nothing 
 > > to 
 > > bolster his claim of falsehood of the hypothesis, he merely suggests 
 > > disproval 
 > > by making the statement conditional that any who believe the statement 
 > > to be 
 > > true is insane. 
 > 
 > I'm not sure what he meant, but to me, anybody who randomly attacks another 
 > from a group because of being slighted by somebody else IS a loon, and 
 > that's exactly what Tommy condones. 
  
 Profiling by cops is not a myth. You can't stop the laws of physics from 
 reacting equally and opposite to your actions. 
  
 > > Don't you also believe that cops often are retalliated against for the 
 > > actions of another? 
 > 
 > It's exceedingly rare. 
  
 Cop killing in general is exceedingly rare. 
  
 Cops die more frequently at the hands of cops than any other cause of 
 death. 
  
 Suicide, sadly is the leading cause of death of cops. 
  
 > > How else would cops explain ambushes? 
 > 
 > Again, those are rare. 
  
 Believing that may cause your death. Never assume it can't happen on 
 every call. 
  
 > > The gangs have no way of knowing which cops would respond. 
 > > 
 > > I'm not condoning the killings or violence by the cops or the gangs. 
 > > 
 > > I just know exactly how the Iraqis feel. 
 > > 
 > > The cops have been liberating our neighborhoods for decades. 
 > > 
 > > The targeting by cops has been met by targeting by gangs. 
 > > 
 > > The aggressive brutality by cops has escalated and has been matched by 
 > > the gangs. 
 > 
 > It seems your saying here that the gangs are raising their level of 
 violence 
 > up to the level of police.  That simply isn't so. 
  
 How does one add violence to a constant without raising the total 
 violence? 
  
 > There's nobody on Earth 
 > who believes the police kill more people than the gangs. 
  
 Again, police tactics created gangs, just as during prohibition. 
  
 > Even if I were to 
 > call every death at an officer's hands a murder, the police would account 
 > for an extremely small fraction of what the gangs accomplish. 
  
 It doesn't matter to any observer who kills more people on their street. 
  
 Both need to be stopped. 
  
 > Pagan 
 > 
 > > Here is the bottom line. 
 > > 
 > > More aggressive police actions will undoubtably increase the likelihood 
 > > of 
 > > bystander deaths and suffering. 
 > > 
  
 [continued in next message] 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)