XPost: alt.conspiracy, ba.general, la.general 
 XPost: soc.culture.jewish 
 From: dorfman@rahul.net 
  
 The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe (reniggade@anglicam.org) wrote: 
 : On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 20:56:24 +0000 (UTC), Merlin Dorfman 
 :  wrote: 
  
 ... 
  
 : >: >: >     And on what basis do you believe that Dickens's portrayal of 
 : >: >: >Fagan indicates negative emotions towards all Jews? 
 : >: > 
 : >: >: You think this was a positive stereotype? 
 : >: > 
 : >: >     I don't think it was a stereotype.  Bill Sykes was a brutal 
 : >: >bully.  Was that a stereotype for all Englishmen? 
 : > 
 : >: Well, duh, how many Englishmen did Dickens portray?  And how many 
 : >: jews? 
 : > 
 : >     Seems to me that a great many of his portrayals of Englishmen 
 : >were negative. 
  
 : Not really.  His portrayals of Englishmen reflected the grim reality 
 : of Victorian England.  Some were, most weren't. 
  
 : > Was he anti-English? 
  
 : Of course not.  Duh. 
  
 : >: >     You see, Dickens, being a literary giant, was considerably 
 : >: >wiser than you.  He knew that if one Jew was a thief, or one 
 : >: >Englishman was a brutal bully, it didn't mean they all were. 
 : > 
 : >: Duh.  Tell me again how many jews Dickens portrayed?  Was even one 
 : >: portrayed in a positive light? 
 : > 
 : >     I don't know.  You tell me. 
  
 : There were several that I'm aware of, almost all (understandably) 
 : portrayed negatively. 
  
      Cite? 
      So, when "Englishmen" are portrayed negatively, it's just the 
 grim reality of Victorian times; but when Jews (whom you can't name) 
 are portryed negatively, it proves that Dickens was anti-Semitic. 
 And the final step of illogic: since Dickens was a great writer, I 
 (a mere "minion") am unqualified to challenge anything he said (I 
 guess it is the "received wisdom"); but you, on the other hand, are 
 qualified to correct Shakespeare. 
  
 : >: >: >     But more important, if you don't challenge Shakespeare's 
 : >: >: >conceptions, you must agree with him that when a Jew converts to 
 : >: >: >Christianity he becomes ichiban #1 OK good guy. 
 : >: > 
 : >: >: Shakespeare correctly identified the problem but not, perhaps, the 
 : >: >: solution. 
 : >: > 
 : >: >     What, are you disagreeing with the literary giant, you 
 : >: >miserable minion? 
 : > 
 : >: Shakespeare was not infallible.  He was partly right.  If he was alive 
 : >: today he would welcome my clarification. 
 : > 
 : >     What "clarification" is that?  That he was wrong to believe that 
 : >Jews who converted to Christianity were OK? 
  
 : Yes.  Jews' character deficiencies are genetic and have nothing to do 
 : with religion.  A mere change of religion will achieve absolutely 
 : nothing. 
  
      You dare to challenge Shakesepeare you miserable minion? 
  
 : > What kind of a minion are you? 
  
 : I'm not.  You are.  Find your own epithets. 
  
      Minion.  Minion.  Minion.  Nyah, nyah, nyah. 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)