XPost: alt.conspiracy, ba.general, la.general
XPost: soc.culture.jewish
From: dorfman@rahul.net
The Revd Terence Fformby-Smythe (reniggade@anglicam.org) wrote:
: On Thu, 7 Aug 2003 21:37:28 +0000 (UTC), Merlin Dorfman
: wrote:
...
: >: >: The pariah state of 'Israel' has replaced yiddish as the unifying
: >: >: factor. I would have thought that was obvious.
: >: >
: >: > And thus Yiddish is no longer needed as a unifying factor.
: >
: >: That is essentially correct. It is still needed as a means of
: >: communication for jews of different backgrounds.
: >
: > Hee hee hee. If "background" means Ashkenazic vs. Sephardic,
: >this is 100% wrong as Sephardic don't speak Yiddish. And fewer
: >and fewer Ashkenazic do either.
: How many times do I have to tell you? They *all* speak yiddish.
You may blatantly assert as often as you wish. It's still
wrong. And, more's the pity, you know it.
: >: >You have accidentally stumbled on a portion of the truth. You
: >: >must be as surprised as I. And thus, for this and other reasons,
: >: >such as intermarriage and the lessening of the threat of
: >: >pogroms, expulsions, etc.,
: >
: >: Eh? The threat is growing not lessening. Expulsions are increasing.
: >
: > Yes, they have doubled, nay tripled. (2 x 0 = 0; 3 x 0 = 0)
: They have neither doubled or tripled. The annual increase is in the
: order of 15% (figures for 2000 and 2001).
1.15 x 0 is also zero. Though I would very much like to see
the figures and, more important, where they came from.
: >: > Yiddish is spoken by fewer and fewer
: >: >and is in danger of dying out in another few generations.
: >
: >: Far from it! As long as jews exist, yiddish will maintain its
: >: position as their language of choice.
: >
: > You are as entitled as anybody else to make a prediction, but
: >this one is as off-base as that Jews will be expelled from the US,
: >"Britain," etc.
: England has been expelling jews for the last 800 years. It is to the
: everlasting credit of the US that they restrained themselves as long
: as they did. But even the patience of the US people was not
: unlimited.
"England" expelled Jews 800 years ago, and for all I know
continued throughout the Dark Ages. (Though it raises the
question: if they were all expelled 800 years ago, how did there
get to be more to expel later?) They have not "been expelling"
Jews in modern times. In fact with a little research I could
probably find exactly when they were formally allowed back.
: >: >: > For the rest of the diaspora, e.g., the Sephardic, who did/do
: >: >: >not speak Yiddish, it was never a factor. Their lingua franca was
: >: >: >Ladino, which was not nearly as universal among the Sephardic as
: >: >: >Yiddish was among the Ashkenazi.
: >: >
: >: >: Ladino is simply one of several yiddish dialects.
: >: >
: >: > Whereas Yiddish is mostly derived from and related to
: >: >medieval German, Ladino is mostly derived from and related to
: >: >the Latin-derived languages of Iberia. This should be obvious
: >: >from the name. Yiddish and Ladino are no more closely related
: >: >than German and Spanish.
: >
: >: What a load of cobblers. That's like saying that Ashkenazi and
: >: Sephardic jews are unrelated, whereas genetic studies show they are
: >: genetically closer to each other (and to their Arab cousins) than
: >: they are to the native populations of their host countries.
: >
: > What a load of cobblers. It is absolutely unlike saying that
: >Ashkenazim and Sephardim are genetically unrelated.
: Two dialects of yiddish versus two branches of the jew race. A
: perfectly valid comparison.
Comparison--yes. Statement that related groups must speak
a related language--no. Language is not inherited, it must be
taught, and it is often not taught. Else how would languages
become extinct?
: >: > But I think we have found the pattern here: any language
: >: >spoken by large numbers of Jews, especially if it is written in
: >: >the Hebrew alphabet, is defined ("Rabbi Troll" is good at
: >: >defining things) to be "Yiddish" or some dialect of it. No
: >: >matter if its grammar, syntax and vocabulary are completely
: >: >different from some other "dialect," it's a matter of definition.
: >: >This saves having to think, reason, or, heaven forbid, prove.
: >
: >: There is no need to prove this any more than there is a need to prove
: >: the sun shines.
: >
: > The difference is: it is possible to prove the sun shines,
: Have you ever seen such a proof?
You stated it; it must then be true :-)
: > while
: >it is not possible to prove that all languages written in the Hebrew
: >alphabet are the same; in fact it is easy to prove the opposite.
: How do you propose to do so?
By showing the different languages that are written in the Hebrew
alphabet: specifically Hebrew and Yiddish being written in very
similar but not identical alphabets, and showing that they are
different languages because they have diferent vocabularies (e.g.,
the numbers 1 to 10), syntax, grammar, and structure.
: > (BTW: can you name the only Semitic language written in the Latin
: >alphabet?)
: Yes. Maltese. The Malts are a funny lot: part European, part
: African, part semitic.
Correct. And can you name the only group besides the Maltese
who have been awarded the George Cross?
: >: >: >: >: The knowledge of Latin that most priests have is insufficient
even for
: >: >: >: >: a basic conversation. There are exceptions of course, but the
odds of
: >: >: >: >: finding two such priests in the same place at any one time are
slight.
: >: >: >: >
: >: >: >: > But it does happen. Hence the language has not died out.
: >: >: >
: >: >: >: If it ever happens, the laws of the Roman Catholic Church do not
allow
: >: >: >: priests to speak to each other in Latin. This is simply a
(reasonable
: >: >: >: enough) precaution against accusations of conspiracy and the
like.
: >: >: >
: >: >: > Cite?
: >: >
: >: >: It's an unwritten law.
: >: >
: >: > LOL! Can you find an unwritten reference to this unwritten
: >: >law?
: >
: >: Yes, but because it's unwritten I can't give it to you.
: >
: > In other words, it is a lie
: No it isn't. You just don't understand, do you? Don't you have
: unwritten laws in your host country?
No...in fact unlike you I don't even have a host country.
: > just like:
: >- Jews are being expelled from the US and "Britain"
: >- Hebrew and Yiddish are the same language
: >- Airlines refuse to give reservations to Jews
: >- El Al beats passengers for asking for a second cup of coffee
: >- ICAO requires airlines to serve coffee to passengers
: > In all these cases, "Rabbi Troll" can offer no proof--for the
: >very good reason that they are lies--so he says it's "obvious,"
[continued in next message]
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* Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)
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