XPost: ny.general, alt.culture.ny-upstate, ny.politics 
 XPost: nyc.politics 
 From: ob110ob@att.net 
  
 On Thu, 13 May 2004 15:02:45 GMT, "Jeremy Thurber" 
  wrote: 
  
 > 
 >> Except that they are two different groups of people, just like most of the 
 >> Americans in Iraq are NOT abusing prisoners. 
 >> 
 >> Woods 
 >> 
 > 
 > 
 >Doesn't seem to matter to them ....they would kill all americans 
 >alike...they aren't descriminating why should we. 
 >Our soldiers are over there acting as police over the iraqi's who aren't 
 >responsible for violence...at this point we need to get over trying to be 
 >polite and act like a military instead of the local sheriff's 
 >department......humanitarianism is great until the next time they decide to 
 >attack target's in the U.S. 
 > 
  
   But see...  There you go again increasing the 
 "tangle" of the mess!  We invaded Iraqi!  We destroyed 
 the infrastructure in the mistakened belief that we 
 were protecting ourselves from a madman bent on 
 launching an attack on our country,  none of which has 
 proven true! 
 But which means that we should have had plans for 
 dealing with the peaceful populace,  whom we said we 
 expected would embrace democracy and freedom. 
  
   WE took control of that soverign nation!  We removed 
 their social and economic infrastructure and we should 
 have been in a position to replace it with something. 
 Something those innocent people could trust!  Instead, 
 we've castigated and abused those people,  we've let 
 them down (the looting that ensued,  the lack of plans 
 to restore the peace and the lack of means to put the 
 proper leadership in power).  They responded by losing 
 faith in us and attacked our operations,  we responded 
 by labeling them all as terrorists and insurgents etc., 
 and we've treated them as enemas.  All while sprouting 
 empty rhetoric blaming them for the problems the inept 
 and erroneous invasion of their land caused. 
  
   If a "solution" is to be found,  it's going to have 
 to be one that people on both sides of the oceans can 
 appreciate!  That means taking blame and re mediation 
 of error, acknowledging shameful failures and 
 expressing real regret over the matter.  Without such a 
 winding back of our positions so wrongfully taken, 
 reality will constantly rear it's ugly head to 
 repudiate whatever else we may say or do. 
  
   By enforcing lies we breed cynicism and that cynicism 
 undermines everything anyone tries to do.  Worse, it 
 empowers our real enemies who can say; "see...  see 
 what hypocrites they are?"  And these kinds of 
 arguments allow our enemies to win hearts and minds 
 over to their side.  I'm sure you're familiar with the 
 phrase, "they're only doing that because...",  I think 
 you can think of quite a few ways that phrase, and more 
 like it, can be used to undermine the American cause. 
  
   Obwon 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)