XPost: alt.government.abuse, nyc.general, nyc.politics 
  
 Obwon wrote: 
  
 > On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 00:17:29 GMT, dashaun345@aol.com wrote: 
 > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > >Obwon wrote: 
 > > 
 > >> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:44:48 GMT, dashaun345@aol.com wrote: 
 > >> 
 > >> > 
 > >> > 
 > >> >Obwon wrote: 
 > >> > 
 > >> >> On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 00:47:11 GMT, dashaun345@aol.com wrote: 
 > >> >> 
 > >> >> > 
 > >> >> > 
 > >> >> >Obwon wrote: 
 > >> >> > 
 > >> >> >>   And LEO is trying to say that law abiding blacks welcomed 
 > >> >> >> that kind of attention and police action because it was 
 > >> >> >> keeping the nabe safe.  I guess he forgot about what 
 > >> >> >> happened to a law abiding black man who tried to draw his 
 > >> >> >> wallet with his id in it.  I guess he's also forgotten what 
 > >> >> >> happened to another law abiding black man who tried to catch 
 > >> >> >> a cab after work. 
 > >> >> >> 
 > >> >> >>   Perhaps LEO doesn't know how the street crimes units were 
 > >> >> >> working.  I saw it first hand in the Bronx, needless to say 
 > >> >> >> it was disgusting!  I saw, for example, where they would 
 > >> >> >> stand by the turnstyles and exit gates at Fordham Road Grand 
 > >> >> >> Concourse and order all young black and hispanic males over 
 > >> >> >> against the wall for no reason.  These kids were returning 
 > >> >> >> from school or work and/or some were going home to change 
 > >> >> >> for work or to go visiting. 
 > >> >> >> 
 > >> >> >>   They would be held against the wall for as much as half an 
 > >> >> >> hour while the police took their sweet time searching them. 
 > >> >> >> All the while people exiting the subway would see them being 
 > >> >> >> held and searched, and have to try to guess if they'd done 
 > >> >> >> something wrong or not.  Talk about needless humiliation! 
 > >> >> >> If the kids complained that they'd already been searched 
 > >> >> >> elsewheres, even just minutes ago, they were likely to 
 > >> >> >> experience rougher going, the police have a large bag of 
 > >> >> >> tricks they can and do dip into to silence complainers. 
 > >> >> >> 
 > >> >> >>   Then, I went up to the street and lo and behold, not two 
 > >> >> >> blocks away, just around a corner, I see twenty more kids 
 > >> >> >> lined up against a wall.  It's quite likely that some of 
 > >> >> >> these kids were the same ones already searched exiting the 
 > >> >> >> subway. 
 > >> >> >> 
 > >> >> >>   In any event I heard nothing good about these searches, 
 > >> >> >> kids and young adults were being stopped so frequently it 
 > >> >> >> was almost impossible for them to navigate the streets.  Not 
 > >> >> >> to mention those who were charged with resisting arrest, 
 > >> >> >> disorderly conduct etc., for merely protesting their 
 > >> >> >> treatment.  It was a godawful mess that would not have been 
 > >> >> >> tolerated in say; Midwood, Howard Beach, The East or West 
 > >> >> >> Village or the Upper East Side where merchants and residents 
 > >> >> >> alike would have breathed a hot breath of fire at city hall. 
 > >> >> >> 
 > >> >> >>   But, none of this kind of thing was reported.  The media 
 > >> >> >> sent no reporter into these poor nabes to find out how 
 > >> >> >> people felt about these new safe neighborhood programs.  I 
 > >> >> >> guess they already knew, or they could get the skinny by 
 > >> >> >> simply droping a line to the good ol' Manhattan Institute 
 > >> >> >> hey? 
 > >> >> >> 
 > >> >> >>   Obwon 
 > >> >> > 
 > >> >> >Nobody should receive special treatment because of their 
 > >> >> >skin color or gender. 
 > >> >> > 
 > >> >>   Now there's a "Manhattan Institute" line if I ever heard 
 > >> >> one!  While it is true that this nation should try to treat 
 > >> >> all people equally, the fact is they have been unable to 
 > >> >> implement such a noble ideal for quite some time.  Like 
 > >> >> perhaps two centuries? 
 > >> >> 
 > >> >>   Soooooo, what's a fair minded nation to do?  Well, what 
 > >> >> was being tried was to attempt to make up for the horrendous 
 > >> >> difficulties that caused!  An attempt to acknowledge the 
 > >> >> past and make the effort to recompense the victims for their 
 > >> >> suffering. 
 > >> >> 
 > >> >>   But statements like that one you just made, does nothing 
 > >> >> to acknowledge the past.  In fact it tends to say that we 
 > >> >> should go forward as if nothing like that ever existed. 
 > >> >> Why?  Indians, Japanese and Italians are being compensated 
 > >> >> for acknowledge mistakes of the past!  Why is it you're in 
 > >> >> favor of forgetting and forgiving?  Isn't that kind of 
 > >> >> position and offer supposed to come from those who suffered 
 > >> >> the harms? 
 > >> >> 
 > >> >>   Here, let me put it even more clearly.  Let's suppose that 
 > >> >> someone walked up behind you and began beating you over the 
 > >> >> head.  Let's say that that person, then shows up in court 
 > >> >> and says to you, "I'm sorry I did that to you, now you must 
 > >> >> forgive me and let bygones be bygones!"  Would that cut the 
 > >> >> mustard with you? 
 > >> >> 
 > >> >>   Obwon 
 > >> > 
 > >> >OK.  You've convinced me. 
 > >> >Everybody should receive special treatment 
 > >> >because of their skin color or gender. 
 > >> > 
 > >>   Try using a little commonsense, that's not what I said! 
 > >> 
 > >>   Obwon 
 > > 
 > >Some of the people should receive special treatment 
 > >because of their skin color or gender some of the time? 
 > >Better? 
 > > 
 > > 
 >  How about "some people should have their history recognized 
 > just like others have?" 
 > 
 >   Obwon 
  
 How about, "All people should have their history recognized 
 and all people should be respected?" 
  
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