XPost: alt.cats, rec.pets.cats.health+behav 
 From: XYZ@XYZinvalid.com 
  
 On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:16:20 -0700, Matthew Montchalin 
  wrote: 
  
 >On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Misty9999 wrote: 
 >|>If an owner can show that her cat shares the relevant DNA, she could 
 >|>compel the organization to have her cat recorded?  Assuming the fee 
 >|>is paid? 
 >| 
 >| In the case of Maine Coons , a prospective breeder must be sponsored 
 >|by an established breeder. 
 > 
 >If they are a private organization, they ought to be allowed to be as 
 >exclusive as they want to be.  OTOH, does the organization depend on 
 >public outlays in anyway?  Have they ever received letters of recognition 
 >from any public bodies?  Do they bandy about letters of recognition, or 
 >rely on them for advertising purposes in any way? 
  
 Totally private organization. 
  
 >|The breeder has provisional status for two years with the Maine Coon 
 >|Breeders and Fanciers Association. They must prove that they are willing 
 >|to follow strict guidelines and make every attempt to improve the breed 
 >|before they have full status as a Maine Coon breeder. 
 > 
 >There must be some objective way of deciding what constitutes a breed, 
 >let alone what constitutes an improvement.  'Consensus' is not the same 
 >thing as enumerated list of requirements.  Winning a cat show - being 
 >a highly subjective event - does not seem to be an objective way of 
 >deciding.  (Any band of hillbillies could hold a cat show, and exclude 
 >supposedly pedigreed cats, so what would that show?) 
  
 Winning cat shows have nothing to do with it. There are many 
 guidelines in regards to the breeding program. The most important 
 guidelines are to try to improve the breed in regards to the two 
 genetic problems with the Maine Coon. Cardio and hip problems. To the 
 best of my knowledge , they don't even have to show to obtain full 
 breeder status. 
  
 >|The provisional breeder's cats are allowed in the registry. 
 >| 
 >|Backyard breeders or people who bought from backyard breeders can NOT 
 >|simply buy their way into the registry. 
 > 
 >Yet the registry is meaningless without some way of knowing whether 
 >one cat is really the cat in question, and whether it belongs to 
 >a breed that is so well-defined that even a blind man could say what 
 >it is, or that it belongs to the putative breed. 
  
 The " family tree " or pedigree papers are what stay on file. I don't 
 see how that is meaningless. 
  
 >|These cats are the ones who often end up in shelters. Breeders rescue 
 >|their respective breeds. The scumbag backyard breeders have violated 
 >|a legal contract. 
 > 
 >What, would you say that it is a tort or a crime, and would you care 
 >to say which? 
  
 Tort 
  
 >|Once they are caught ( the backyard breeders , not the buyers ) are 
 >|eaten alive in court by cat loving attorneys . 
 > 
 >Cite some cases, please. 
  
 In the cases I am personally familiar with, a cease and desist letter 
 or an out of court settlement solved the problem. The out of court 
 settlements are sealed records , but it is always a surrender of the 
 cats and ( in some cases ) a financial settlement in favor of the 
 breeder. There are cases of both breeders and shelters enforcing these 
 agreements in court , but I don't have the time right now to get the 
 exact cites. Also it CAN become a criminal matter if the backyard 
 breeder treated the cats in an inhumane way. I will look for some 
 cites at the state level as time permits. 
  
 >|Whatever money they might have made from backyard breeding is quickly 
 >|wiped out in civil court. 
 > 
 >On how many counts of common law slander of chattel? 
  
 The " wipe out" occurs if they ignore the cease and desist letter and 
 consult an expensive attorney .   Legally the cat is the chattel of 
 the breeder. It becomes the chattel of the owner when the contract is 
 fulfilled. Backyard breeders have breached the contract. 
  
 >|There is nothing you can do if a backyard breeder manages to find an 
 >|unregistered stud and queen ( not obtained from a reputable breeder 
 >|who requires a legal contract ). Thankfully , that does not happen 
 >|very often. 
 > 
 >Yet there must be some way of deciding what constitutes a breed, 
 >and what *is* a departure from that breed. 
 > 
 >|>|There is little difference in looks and no difference in temperament 
 >|>|between " show " cats , breeder cats, and pet quality cats. 
 >|> 
 >|>I've noticed that different cats have different personalities.  This 
 >|>may not be a factor in winning a "show" but there may be a genetic 
 >|>basis to the cat's personality.  With enough DNA samples, modern 
 >|>science might realize a new discovery or two. 
 >| 
 >|Agreed , but ALL cats have unique personalities. Temperament is a very 
 >|important thing to both breeders and prospective buyers of purebred 
 >|cats. 
 > 
 >I would agree that a hissssing cat is not too likely to win a cat 
 >show.  But the tendency to hissss may be genetic in origin. 
 > 
 >|>|Very few people want to get involved in breeding or showing. It is an 
 >|>|expensive and time consuming endeavor. 
 >|> 
 >|>It can be a lot of work restricting access to your cats if you allow 
 >|>them to roam around in your south forty, a couple hundred miles from 
 >|>civilization. 
 >| 
 >|I have never heard of a breeder or cat owner ( purebred or moggie) 
 >|allowing their cats to roam around in the south forty a couple hundred 
 >|miles from civilization 
 > 
 >Do cat breeders live only in cities? 
  
 No , but rural areas do have houses. 
  
 --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05 
  * Origin: you cannot sedate... all the things you hate (1:229/2)